A more logical approach acknowledges that there are punks in every society, and that they obviously aren’t listening to anyone, and that saying more than was said would have no benefit. But no, instead people expect the Gedolim to make pronouncements that no one will listen to, just so they can feel good about themselves. Yet just as it is a mitzvah to say that which will be heard…

Don’t imagine that any more “modern” Rabbi will satisfy them. Until an immigrant from the FSU or elsewhere with neither Jewish lineage nor intent is able to marry a Jew in a Jewish ceremony in Israel, with state recognition, the Reform will be fighting for it. That’s the point I am making to Mrs. Josephs.

Charlie, I wasn’t aware that only the chareidim observe halachah in things like Mechitzos. I think my Modern Orthodox friends would find that line highly offensive. But further, before 1967 it didn’t have a Mechitzah only because the Turks, Muslims and British wouldn’t permit it (see the comment by “PG” to my post on Political Provocation, in which he quotes Rabbi Aharon Rakeffet, who said the British, to appease the Arabs, “also did not allow the blowing of the shofar (but every year a shofar was smuggled in to the Kotel and blown)”). The Jews put up a Mechitza whenever they thought they could get away with it. Are you suggesting, a la the Niturei Karta, that we return to that situation? Wow. You make me look positively left-wing!

No, ONE Gedol conditioned his approval on a lack of violence. He didn’t condemn anything, before or after. And has any other Gedol said anything at all? I’d be very happy if it were so, so please cite a link. Also please cite a link to the Gedolim’s condemnation of the harassment of the religious girls in Ramat Beit Shemesh, and their condemnation of last week’s riot in Jerusalem.

“Their condemnation is included on the same pashkevilin where their proclamations are.”

Please cite a link to a photograph of such a pashkevil condemning the harassment of the religious girls in Ramat Beit Shemesh, condemning the harassment of the Women of the Wall, and condemning last week’s riot in Jerusalem.

2. ms. josephs hit the nail on the head. the quarreling on this issue is regretable, overwhelming other ssociated issues.

I’m not sure that this qualifies as sufficient condemnation (and coming from a different commentator I may have even read this sentence sarcastically). I think people are looking for violence to be condemned with language and intensity at least approaching the condemnation heaped on the internet, tzniut and other scorns of the Charedi world.

No one thinks that the Gedolim don’t “condemn violence”. Achmed Tibi (L’Havdil) also condemns violence. The question then is to what degree and how severely do they “condemn violence”, and what are they willing to do to the perpetrators.

As I said earlier, a full Cherem & boycott, complete with protests in front of homes should be implemented. They would certainly do so if a Dati couple moved into their neighborhood whose child plays soccer, or showed some ankle.

Rabbi Pesach Lerner, Executive Vice President Emeritus of the National Council of Young Israel, approached Maran HaGaon HaRav Aharon Leib Shteinman Shlita about this new initiative. Rav Shteinman responded that it is important to do this, on the strict condition that there be no violence, ch”v.

He made this absolute in advance and said “Heaven forbid” it should happen. So the Gedolim condemned it before it even happened.

I really don’t know what it is that makes people make such absolute statements from a place of such abysmal ignorance, but there you have it.

Harry, I would assume that the Gedolim don’t just look to one-time events but at the larger picture. It was ultimately the police that made the extremely stupid decision to place these women as close as possible to the men, instead of surrounding them with women. Actually, they did realize their error, and in the end frum women did surround them on all sides and that kept the bochurim away. I’m sure the police don’t want garbage thrown at them and will endeavor to choose a better spot next time.

I elect Jonathan Rosenblum to lead the cause!

Very simple. If you would treat them the same way as (in EY) those who (CV) wear sneakers, play basketball/soccer or sell MP3 players, they would be long gone. Declare them off the derech, and “shun” them. Remove their children from your schools, do not allow them into your minyanim. Declare them from the Keneset floor to be in Cherem, and not part of the Charaidi Tzibbur (and back it up with actions). Protest in front of their homes. Do onto our terrorists as you ask the Arabs to do onto their terrorists.

Maybe then, even if they still act like they are Charaidi, the rest of the world will know they are not.

Apparently neither of you have ever listened to anything said by Gedolim. They condemn violence all the time. Their condemnation is included on the same pashkevilin where their proclamations are.

You seem to be no different than those individuals who do act out violently, neither of you listen to what the gedolim say.

Charlie Hall makes a very good point about the Chareidi gedolim generally not condemning violence after it occurs.

If the Chareidim were smart, they would ignore the WOW prayer service next month and gather tens of thousands of women at the Kotel a day after Rosh Chodesh. That way, no violence would ensue — and the story would be that tens of thousands of women gathered peacefully at the Kotel to pray…a stark contrast to the couple of dozen of the WOW folks. That would be good PR.

it is sad that with critical issues facing the public in israel, a side-show can garner so much energy.

Notwithstanding which it was probably unwise to use violence in this instance since it was contrary to achieving our goals.

As has been said of others in a different context, “they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.