I actually think a bit like you, but tried to word it respectfully.

The fact is also that the press is sometimes at fault, as I think happened regarding a statement disseminated, which I don’t think was intended for public consumption, following a tragedy last year in Israel.

I also note that Jonathan Rosenblum, in “Price of Disunity”(Cross Currents, 1/4/09), focused on the lack of professional staff of organized community life, as compared to the American Aguda:

“We totally lack a professional staff to help provide the gedolei Torah with the best possible information prior to their decision-making and with the ability to execute their directives”

Ori: Wouldn’t the responsibility be on the gdolim themselves? Aren’t they supposed to be the ones with the best judgment?

The first point would be to make sure that the statements are in the proper context, and are not misquoted by the secular press, or even by well-meaning Charedi sources. The second point is to try to understand them in context: I believe that this statement of R. Weintraub, shlita, can be justified in context, just as seemingly extreme statements of the Satmar Rav zt’l on the State of Israel.

It is interesting to reread the Mishpacha article by Jonathan Rosenblum, written in August, 2004(“A Disease In Search of a Cure”) concerning this type of situation, linked below:

“Those who make a business of providing the secular media with tips of piquant stories that place the chareidi world and its leaders in a bad light are a disease, but they are not a disease without a cure. Whether they operate from the courtyards of gedolim, or from the chareidi press, or independently, it is about time that we ferreted them out and exposed them to the public scorn they so richly deserve.”

I believe that the above has changed since the internet. In the post-internet age anyone can copy a “puzzling” statement of a gadol, or the latest Kol Koreh from Meah Shearim or Bnei Brak and disseminate it anonymously.

I think one can only appeal to people’s “yiras shomayim” to be responsible in how they choose to act, rather than the possibility of “ferreted them out”. Also, since there are no secrets anymore, one can try to publicly deal, head-on, with the “puzzling” statements in a sophisticated way, as some have tried to do on the thread here. Perhaps there also needs to be a greater responsibility on the charedi press; not every speech of a gadol needs to be publicized.

I am not questioning the concern for the welfare of the soldiers and people of the south. But it is the lack of ha’caras ha’tov – it is possible to delegitmize any act of chesed by saying , they were doing it for them selves. My Rov here in Israel commented – My Rov is R Chayim Smulevitz – he said bring me a soldier so I can kiss him. Hakaras Hatov should not interfere with the value of lomdei Torah. By emphazing doverning for soldiers and learning for them even more we can both show hakaras Hatov and acknowlege the war is essentially been fought in the beis Medrash. There is no s’tirah. Guilt feelings are good to inspire people to act on them , more hakaras hatov , more doverning , more learning. Getting rid of these feelings by delegitimizing the soldiers is not the way. he could say the battle is being fought both in the beis medrash and on the battlefield , every one has a part to play and every one must play his part. Of course there was also great kiddush hashem by the many frum soldiers as seen from the IDF Rav post , also hearing mincha being doverned while taking refuge in some building in the middle of the war. To describe the army as a pure ‘ chiloni camp ‘ not only disassociates one from many of klal yisroel but the many frum soldiers who fought and also died in the war. It is aquestion of chinuch.
Ak

Ak

KT

Can we just love one another – no-one else does!

Bringing a raya from Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz doesn’t hold a tremendous amount of water. When people realize the greatness of lomdei Torah, it is appropriate to tell them “You need to realize how holy the soldiers are”. When people are begging for relief from inappropriate guilt feelings, it is appropriate to tell them “You need to realize how holy YOU are”. (Yes, I agree that the approaches of Rav Chaim and Rav Weintraub would be somewhat different even if both would be speaking in 2009, but I don’t attach the significance that Joel attaches)

The point of Rabbi Shafran’s article was totally lost on many
of the posters here. The point isn’t whether or not you wish
the Moetzes had worded their statement differently, or whether
you like the non-Zionist stance of charedi Jews. It was that
we all have to judge one another favorably (and no, Tzvee,
that doesn’t mean adopting everyone else’s hashkafos – I hope
you have ahavas yisroel for Satmarers, but no one
insists that you adopt their views). It’s a shame that most of the
discussion here isn’t about that important topic at all. It’s
very needed here.

Albie

KT

“The problem is with the approach – that the yeshiva bochurim say “they are moser nefesh for us, so this is what we do for them” To make a partnership? To act as if there is a connection between our camp and the hiloni camp? That is treif! …Another problem with Adopt a Soldier is that they say “they are being moser nefesh for us.” That is not true! If you would go to the soldiers, not during war, and ask for 20 shekels for the yeshiva and for those learning torah in poverty, would they run to give it to you like they are running to fight in Gaza? For sure not! So 20 shekels they won’t give you, but their lives they will!!?? Of course they are giving themselves up and being moser nefesh, but it is not for us! ….”

Now, clearly this view is not shared by everyone. However, it is prominent enough for this caller to have had reason for his complaint.

I checked the nusach out with My Rov , asked if I was being oversensitive about the omission of the words soldiers- he replied that he also picked this up and it is not the style and language his Rov Reb Chaim Smulevitz would have used referring to soldiers. He said that language was very problematic in his eyes and preferred not to talk about it.

And thus in the spirit of your own statement, the time has come for you and your sages to recognize and embrace the State of Israel as the first flowering of our redemption and the specifically endorse the prayer for the State and the prayer for the IDF in all of your synagogues.

Comment by Yehoshua Friedman — January 19, 2009 @ 3:38 pm

Here is your answer:

An IDF rabbi shared this personal testimony…

I had the privilege this week of accompanying the Golani Brigade’s Regiment 12 soldiers. I am the regiment’s rabbi, in reserves, and I was called up to serve just like the all the rest, to “aid Israel at its time of tribulation.”
As a long-time ba’al-teshuvah [returnee to observant Judaism], a rabbi in a yeshiva who usually walks around wearing a jacket and hat, I now had a major change of atmosphere: my black “uniform” became one of dusty dark green, the hubbub of the Torah study hall was replaced by not-so-pleasing army slang, and my wife’s delicious food was given up for the “delicacies” of the mess hall, most of which I don’t eat because of one stringency or another.
We spent most of the week in wet tents, with the terrible cold preventing me from sleeping at night. (I apparently wasn’t working as hard as the other soldiers, because they fell asleep the second they hit the pillow).
My work, as an official of the Army Rabbinate, was to give encouragement and strength20to the soldiers, give out Books of Psalms [Tehillim] and distribute special prayers for those who go out to battle.
Psalms for All
And what did I discover down there in southern Israel? My brothers! The Golanchiks (Golani Brigade soldiers), about to go out to war, want to hold on to the Rock of Israel! There wasn’t a soldier there who didn’t equip himself with a Tehillim in his pocket or combat vest – but the big surprise we had was when we gave out tzitzit [four-cornered shirt with the required ritual fringes attached], usually only the yeshiva guys take them, but this time, every soldier there seemed to want one!
“Rabbi, bring me some tzitzit, my whole tent wants.” “Hey, achi [my brother], take one of these, it’s better than the ceramic vest!” These were the types of calls we kept hearing over and over. Every package of tzizit that we opened was snatched up within seconds.
There was one young fighter who came to the synagogue whose face fell when he heard that there were no tzitzit left. He was totally bereft, until one of the officers who wasn’t going out to battle took off his own tzitzit and gave it to him, saying, “Take it, achi (in the Golani you can’t say something without achi), you need it now more than I do.”

The Ma’ariv, evening prayer of Friday night, was simply unbelievable. The Rabbinate realized that the synagogue was too small to fit all the hundreds of soldiers, and so it turned the soccer field into an impromptu synagogue, with prayerbooks, Holy Ark, and everything else.
Whoever did not take part in that Kabbalat Shabbat [Sabbath Welcoming] service, is like one who never took part in a Kabbalat Shabbat service in his life! Almost the entire Golani Brigade, officers and soldiers, yelling out the Kaddish and Tehillim prayers. If it wasn’t for the uniform I was wearing, I could have almost thought that I was at a Yom Kippur service in one of the large yeshivot!
No Questions Asked
Our loving Father, too, was there, enjoying every minute of His sons gathering around Him. Our Father doesn’t ask, “Where have you been until now? Why do you remember Me just when you go out to war?” He welcomes all His children and embraces them with love.
After the Sabbath meal, held in an atmosphere of a great “high,” we were privileged to be able to hold an Oneg Shabbat for the soldiers. Chief IDF Rabbi Avi Ronsky was with us the whole Sabbath, and he warmed our hearts with stories of the Nation of Israel, on compassion, on brotherly love, and more. We sat outside with cake and sunflower seeds in the cold, but inside our hearts it was warm.
During the Sabbath, we had to travel to the places from where the soldiers would leave for Gaza. We arrived and the soldiers were imbued with combat spirit, getting ready, trying to get in a last cigarette. Many soldiers tried very hard not to smoke that Sabbath, after I explained to them the importance of observing the Sabbath. They would come up to me every five minutes and ask if the Sabbath had ended yet.
We prayed Ma’ariv there, recited Havdalah [the Sabbath-ending blessing] over grape juice, a lighter [instead of a candle] and an orange [in place of spices]. And then it was time to go in. The Regiment Commander gathered everyone for last-minute words of strength, and explained to them about the “corrective experience” we were about to impart to the enemy.
When he finished, the Deputy Commander read aloud the prayer before going out to battle. “Repeat after me,” he ordered, and a whole regiment of hundreds of soldiers yelled out, “Ana Hashem hoshia na! Ana Hashem hatzlicha na! [O G-d, save us! O G-d, grant us success!]” After the prayer, the Deputy Commander asked me to blow the Shofar, just as thousands of years ago when we conquered the Holy Land.
Perfect Coordination
Though I’ve blown the Shofar in public before, this particular time was something that will remain with me my whole life. And then, as if I and the Israel Air Force were in perfect coordination, the very second that I finished blowing the Shofar, our planes bombed the enemy area, as if it were a signal to begin the ground offensive.
The soldiers lined up in two columns, and as I parted from them with handshakes, I thought to myself, “What a special nation we have! This is how a Jewish army looks as it goes out to war – not with boastful ‘We will win’ stickers, but rather ‘We will win with G-d’s help.’”
No Dispute
I will just end by saying that where I live in Modi’in Illit, we have a clever interpretation of the verse ‘G-d’s voice is powerful’ – the word for power is spelled with the letters kaf and chet, which we say are the initials of kova and chalifa [hat and suit], our usual garb. But as of this week, we now know that they are also the initials of the kumta chuma [brown beret] worn by the Golani soldiers. There, too, the voice of G-d is heard – and “lo pligi” (there is no argument between the two, both are right).
Shabbat Shalom!!
Allen Sausen
Tel: 561 374 9813
alsausen@gmail.com

Thought Experiment – would R’AS get such calls if the segment of the population represented by the Moetzet was represented in Tzahal (and from whom would the calls come from if soldiers weren’t mentioned)? (side point – if this were the case, I think the soldiers would get specific mention as much as the rabbi, gabboim and the shul president do in misheberachs but would be interested if others disagree)
KT

Thoughts From Our Rav
The following was given to me, found in a short article in the Israeli press. I would like to pass it on to you.
Four IDF soldiers were killed by friendly fire in two incidents in Gaza last Monday – and the parents of some of them want to embrace their comrades who accidentally killed them. Over the weekend, with the seven-day mourning period drawing to a close, the parents of St.-Sgt. Nitai Stern and Capt. Yoni Netanel sent messages to the soldiers whose fire accidentally killed their sons. On Friday, Rabbi Amos Netanel and his wife Malki phoned two of the tank crew members who fired on a building in which the soldiers were taking refuge. In addition, they wrote them a letter full of love and encouragement: “Dear tank crew #… of Company …. of Regiment …, who are fighting night and day with valor and self-sacrifice on behalf of our nation and land. “We know that our son Yoni fell as part of the great military campaign at the hands of our own forces. We feel a deep inner need to tell you, with all of our life-strengths, that we love you and embrace you tightly. “Fatal friendly fire incidents are an unavoidable part of every war and of our ability to defeat the enemy on the battlefield. Yoni went out to war knowing this, and we, his parents, sent him off to war knowing this as well. “It was not you who hit Yoni! “Yoni died for the Sanctification of G-d’s Name at the time that G-d decided his time on earth had reached its end. You were the pure angels who had to carry this out. “We find comfort in the fact that your pure hands struck at him, and not the defiled hands of our wicked enemy – for Yoni could not have been felled by any impure hand. “It is important for us to tell you that we love you with all the warmth of our hearts, you are like our own children… Please, we ask you, keep up the same great spirit that beat in Yoni’s heart – the spirit of faith, of strength, daring and love, and we will then know that Yoni continues to live forever within you.” The letter concludes with a request that they come to visit “so that we can embrace you,” and was signed by Yoni’s parents, his wife Tziona, and their 3-month-old daughter Maayan. The parents of Nitai Stern are similarly concerned for the soldiers who caused their son’s death. “We have an obligation and the privilege to embrace them,” said his mother Sarah. “There is no war without mishaps like this. We want them to come to us and be part of us. We lost a son, and I won’t let any additional mothers lose their own sons to depression or sadness.” How can our hearts not be filled with emotion and our eyes with tears at the preciousness and specialness of our brethren!

A Gutten Shabbos,
Yaakov Hopfer

I felt better when I read about Rav Lefkovitz’s call for us not to think of ourselves but to think and be noseih b’ol chaveiro of the soldiers fighting in Gaza and the dangers they were in , and the residents of the south.

A magid shiur commented to me that he felt connected to the war because one of the learners was fighting on the front. I think that connection is missing in the chareidi community , not saying the prayer for chayalei Tzahal does not help either. Instead of saying the nusuach of the tefiloh one could say a regular mi’shebeirach during the leining.

The omissions and generic nature of the call and chareidi newspapers left a bad taste in my mouth

AK

My question is whether we can reach more of the non-religious, non-Zionist Jews who are getting closer and closer in their sympathies to the enemy.