Also, I have witnessed people say horrible things to African American Jews and non-Jews many, many times. If it’s a Jew, some people try to say “oh I don’t mean you.” But it is EVERYWHERE and it is horrific. I know many Jews of Color who are no longer frum because of the horrible treatment they have received. I have a friend who has started to drive on Shabbos because when she has gone to black hat families, they have made horribly rude comments to her half-black daughter and she refuses to let her child be hurt, so she leaves even though she feels horrible about having to break Shabbos. It’s a shame.

It’s there. We all know it. It’s horrific. It’s unacceptable but the more posts we get about it not existing means one more time, it will be swept under the rug.

In fact, one of my closest friends, an African American Orthodox Jewish female who was very Yeshivish moved to a bigger frum community was so appalled that she doesn’t leave her home on Shabbos for the rare occasions when she stays in town and hates going to kosher establishments. This is what those mean, hateful comments do to people. It’s not just a comment, but you are really hurting neshamas.

Don’t be part of the problem, be part of the solution!

No doubt that not voting/supporting or even criticizing Obama is certainly democratically appropriate. But that is not the sum total of comments I have heard in Orthodox circles. The hatred of “goyim,” the attacks on the “shwartes,” and the problem with the “shikses” are common and gesticulated. To claim otherwise is simply delusional. MeDvar Sheker Tirchak!

Ori: When there’s a referendum, we can evaluate issues. When it’s an election, we need to evaluate the whole politician. As you said, there are plenty of Leftist policies that are “bug bears”: eg. anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian agitation, blind devotion to legitimising the killing of babies and homosexual marriage (and, increasingly, the killing of the weak and elderly through “merciful” euthanasia)

Can a candidate’s other policies be so good as to outweigh these considerations?

But don’t despair too much. There were plenty of split tickets as there is a strong tendency among the Orthodox to vote in state and local incumbents who have done their job well, regardless of their party. Though as the Democrat message continues to evolve (devolve?) that may change.

The sense that most Orthodox Jews voted against Obama makes ample sense anecdotally since in my own informal polling at shuls I attend–Obama is not very popular.

77% overall seems about right (although I was working to keep it in the 60-s) and this assume large majorities for the 10-12% of the community voting overwhelmingly the other way against Obama.

I repeat my request made on November 17, 2008 @ 1:42 am that you document who, when, and where in this blog (1) you were informed that “it against the Torah to vote Democratic”, (2) who, when, and where Obama as a person was compared to Hitler as a person, (3) when and where in this blog you wrote “that Obama is not Hitler”, and (4) when and where in this blog you were condemned for protesting your alleged statement in (3).

I also repeat my reminder that the Torah equates slander to the three cardinal sins combined.

There is evidence that the hugher the percentage of religious Jews the area went more for McCain-see eg the 5 Towns ofLongIsland-Lawrence which is heavily least outwardlypseudochareidi went 89%for McCain, a one went away from lawrence and less percentage ofOrthodox and chareidi Judaism the percentages for McCain went down until Hewlett which voted for Obama.

I’ve engaged in such “Jewish” extrapolations in other communities over the years…sadly, they must be taken with a degree of salt, largely due to the ecological fallacy that you allude to.

Orthodox Jews are small enough of a subset, even in MS/HS 141 (which I know well, having voted there myself in past elections), that it’s hard to know how they voted in one election year, let alone to assume that their voting pattern switched 4 years later.

In terms of Bronx Jewish history–the borough had a strong Socialist presence earlier in the 20th century…true, many Jews were nominally Orthodox back then but overall it wasn’t a particularly “frum” place to grow up (although certainly quite Jewish from an ethnic perspective).

My guess why contemporary Riverdale Orthodox Jews probably tend to be less knee-jerk Republican than other outer borough Orthodox Jews–probably largely due to education. PhDs, MDs, JDs, etc, both male and female (and those who are in training for those degrees) are the mainstay of the two largest Orthodox shuls–RJC and HIR.

Preliminary 2008 election results from the 81st Assembly district in the Bronx, which includes Riverdale and a part of a few neighboring communities:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?ad=081&sh=map

(Assemblyman Dinowitz was the person quoted in the other post.)

Obama 27,784
All others (including McCain) 8,305

Source:

http://www.riverdalepress.com/atf.php?sid=6575&current_edition=2008-11-13

“Sen. John McCain, Mr. Obama’s Republican rival in the election, took a portion of Woodlawn within his district and did well in some parts of Riverdale….Mr. Obama did well at polling places at the David A. Stein Riverdale/Kingsbridge Academy, MS/HS 141, where a large contingent of Jewish Riverdale residents vote.”

The Riverdale/Kingsbridge Academy is directly across the street from the Riverdale Jewish Center, an Orthodox synagogue with between 600 and 700 dues-paying families. That polling place probably has the highest concentration of Orthodox Jews in the Bronx today.

By comparison, the vote in 2004 was

Kerry 28,680
Bush 10,140

It is theoretically possible that McCain did better than Bush among Orthodox Jews in my neighborhood, but unlikely. He would have had to have been completely wiped out in the non-Orthodox and non-Jewish demographics. And the demographics of Riverdale non-Jews are quite similar to the non-Jewish population of Woodlawn (Irish is the predominant ethnicity), which McCain actually carried according to the article, so this is not very likely.

I’m not sure why Bronx Jews are voting differently from Jews in Brooklyn, but the Bronx has voted Left ever since the late 1920s. (This year it was Obama’s best county in the US.) It voted for Harding and Coolidge but never for a Republican Presidential candidate since. Even Fiorella LaGuardia only carried the Bronx because he ran on a Fusion line (1933) or as the candidate of the socialist American Labor Party (1937, 1941). And remember that the Bronx was about 50% Jewish from the 20s to the early 50s, and the predominant affiliation of those Jews was Orthodox.

This certainly seems to be true to those who only looked at what the mainstream media (liberally-biased and not) told us all was worth paying attention to. However, leaving aside various troubling McCain and Palin associations that are probably no more significant than, say, Obama’s with Ayers, the McCain/Palin campaign had an under-reported material connection with our enemies that was truly problematic. Their former campaign finance chair was a bought and paid for agent of the House of Saud (http://www.newsweek.com/id/137522). The press discovered as much, and McCain fired him and got a new finance director. But guess what? The new finance director works for the same lobbying firm, also as an agent of Saudi Arabia, lobbying Congress in defense of Saudi Arabia’s anti-Semitic, anti-Christian school textbook industry. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/15/friends-of-israel-two-mcc_n_134932.html)

The election’s over, so, thank God, we only have to worry about this material Saudi influence on a particular US Senator, not on the President. We Israel supporters can be especially grateful that God threw us this kindness without most of us even noticing it as it was happening.

Both McCain and Obama represented the best of what America embodies by what they did and said on election night. Let’s hope they can indeed work together in the upcoming years to meet the enormous challenges that our country now faces.

“I am happy to see that people across the Orthodox spectrum have realized, and are pushing back against this blight. The editors of the Jewish Press did not write a column against it to slander Orthodox Judaism. They wrote it, because they recognized a serious problem in our community and they want to work against it.”

So am I. I think it is a very good thing that Orthodox institutions are recognizing the problem of racism and are beginning to speak out about it. This ,in the long run, will benefit Orthodoxy much more than outraged denials.

Lawrence Reisman – Your point is an intersting one. It is quite true that Orthodox opposition to Obama was based primarily on the belief that loyalty to Judaism necessitates right-wing politics. However, I think the reaction to Hilary would have been different, and much less unpleasant. And it is also true that conservative opposition to Obama did not necessitate racial name calling.

Fianlly – a few points in response to Rabbi Menken:

A) A differentiation between “internal” and “external” criticism in this case is not very persuasive. Truth is truth, no matter what the source – and, as every spiritual tradition including Judaism points out, one ought welcome sharp criticism, as it points out things that your friends and colleagues never would.

B) “but the non-Orthodox hardly have reason to crow”. – No one, I can assure you, is crowing – or, at the very least, I’m not, since I can’t speak for “everyone”. I was, in fact expressing a sense of sadness, mixed with not a little outrage, over a state of affairs in a community that I was part of for many years. This state of affairs, obvious to everyone except those in deep denial, is something that needs to be addressed. Hopefully, it will be – and both Orthodoxy and the other religious Jewish denominations will be the better for it.

i would suggest to those congregants who attend the shuls presided over by our reverse Reverend Wrights to realize that their actions will be a hindrance to carreera in public and civil service.

Secondly, if chss shallom some crazy threatens the president elect or worse after hearing the hatred sprewed by these rabbis, both they,their congreagtions and the entire frum community’s goose is cooked.

But if your ideal is tolerance, “live and let live,” then there is no logical foundation for an objection. Yes, if the lifestyles and goals are very different then that would be a separate issue, but the unstated (yet mutually understood) assumption was that the girl would be changing her lifestyle to match her intended’s.

Ori: Even the most liberal parents have other ideals, whether they articulate them or not. Nobody can live on just tolerance – it doesn’t provide guidance in 90% of life’s situations. Those other ideals they have, whether they are conscious of them or not, are the problem here.

“There is something really sick when saying that Obama is not Hitler got me condemned.”

Please indicate the exact place and time in this blog that (1) you were informed “that it against the Torah to vote Democratic”, and (2) that you were condemned for rejecting an analogy between Obama and Hitler. I take the liberty to remind you that the Torah equates slander to murder, immorality, and idol worshiping combined.

“When informed that my only freedom of choice is what spice to put into my cholent,”

Your freedom of choice in the context was manifest in the choice between finding out daas Torah re. the elections, or getting your cues from CNN, NYTimes, and LATimes. You chose CNN, NYTimes, and LATimes.

“closed mindedness was normative Judaism”

I asked you in Comment by dovid — November 10, 2008 @ 10:27am to define normative Judaism. You chose not to. Actually, Torah Judaism is normative. As a matter of fact, every religion is normative. The Shulchan Aruch is the Jewish code of law. It gives us the parameters within which we live our lives. You call this close mindedness. Others call it fear of G-d.

“chareidi orthodoxy today has morphed into a type of mind control where only 90 year old rabbis who speak no English make all the rules.”

1. Let’s see whose mind is controlled. Here is a man, whose resume at the age of 47 is pretty much a blank page. Now that America is experiencing a devastating economic downturn that put our jobs, homes, and lives in jeopardy, in addition to two wars that seem to lead nowhere, our man runs for president on a platform of promising hope and change to the nation. This man dutifully attended the weekly services of a church whose minister is on record cursing America, the whites, and “Jewish power”. Our man held his peace throughout this time. He never showed outrage or displeasure. You voted him president of the United States of America. I dare say your mind is controlled by the liberal media.

2. The English spoken by Gedolei Torah of America is at least as good as yours. Incidentally, Rabbi Yisroel Belsky achieved a perfect score when he took the SAT. Excuse my Jewish chuzpah, what was your SAT score?

3. You wax emotional about the tribe of your ancestors that wondered in the desert and knew better than let themselves be brainwashed by “90-yr. old rabbis”. How old were Moshe Rabbeinu and Aaron Hacohen in the desert? Moshe was 80 when they left Egypt. Aaron was 83. They led the Jewish nation, your tribe included, until the last day of their lives. At their death, they were 120 and 123, respectively. Jews, your tribe included, were inconsolable. BTW, the leaders of the tribes in the desert were called זקנים (elders). Your tribe, that supplied elders in their 90’s to Jewish leadership along with the other tribes, would be embarrassed of you who instead of following authentic Jewish leadership picks up his cues from CNN, NYTimes, and LATimes. They would not drink your wine as you correctly suggested.

But if your ideal is tolerance, “live and let live,” then there is no logical foundation for an objection. Yes, if the lifestyles and goals are very different then that would be a separate issue, but the unstated (yet mutually understood) assumption was that the girl would be changing her lifestyle to match her intended’s.

I am sure FFB is well aware of the track record of reliability, commitment to truth, and lack of bias when it comes to anonymous blog comments. What is needed here are some hard numbers, and the only ones thus far were posted by Charlie Hall to Rabbi Adlerstein’s post. The percentage for Obama was such that “the local state assemblyman pointed out in a recent interview that such margins would be impossible without a lot of support from religious Jews.”

Did a higher percentage vote for McCain than voted for Bush four years ago? According to Reb Yid himself, the opposite is true in every district with a significant Orthodox presence, without exception.

Sorry, but that’s a flawed analogy. Skin color is a meaningless characteristic. A person’s beliefs and life style are not. Being black-hatted means something more than a head-gear preference.

Let me turn it around. Imagine your daughter brought home a black man she would like to marry. He was adopted by Orthodox parents as a baby, underwent giyur, and then at the age of Bar Mitzvah confirmed to everybody that he wants the giyur to be effective. He is currently a star student at a Yeshiva, and attends a night school to get a degree so he will be able to bring parnassah. He has all the characteristics of a wonderful husband and father. You’d be very happy.

Now imagine that she brought home a Reform Rabbi. He loves your daughter, he has a good career, and he seems to also be a potentially wonderful husband and father. However, he does not believe in Torah miSinai, eats non-Kosher food, and while he happens to live close enough to walk to his temple on Shabbat would really rather drive when it’s raining heavily. You would have serious misgivings about the marriage.

It makes sense to worry about a marriage when the lifestyles of the spouses up to this point have been so different. It’s not bigotry if you do it, and it’s not bigotry if we heterodox Jews do it either.

The opposition to Obama stems from the widely-held belief that the Torah has commanded the Jewish people to be right-wing Republicans.

No, that’s just your assumption based on my pen name. I’ve spent years in other cities and even in other countries. My experience is unequivocal: the Orthodox community is suffused with racism from top to bottom. Don’t deny to me what I’ve seen with my own eyes for decades!

“while there certainly is racism in the Orthodox community I am not convinced that it is any more, and probably less, prevalent than in the general community.”

You’re delusional.

On the general post, while there certainly is racism in the Orthodox community I am not convinced that it is any more, and probably less, prevalent than in the general community.

And by the same token, there was indeed a concerted effort by the left to paint every criticism and question raised against Obama as racist. There were numerous newspaper and periodical columns whose gists was the only reason that Obama was not winning (or not winning by a landslide) was racism. How about the AP reporter who claimed that Sarah Palin’s remark that Obama “pals around with terrorists” was “racially tinged” — when she was talking about William Ayers, a lily white, unrepetant digusting terrorist. If you attempt to shut down rational discourse through loose charges of “racism” then don’t be surprised when you start experiencing more “racism.”