This year’s presidential elections pitted two candidates whose credentials (or lack thereof) made the choice easy. Nevertheless, the majority of Jews voted for the wrong candidate. There have been even charedim who voted for the wrong candidate. You may say they didn’t do their homework, or got carried away by promises of hope and change, or who know what. You can safely assume that not one of the charedim that voted for Obama ask his/her rov whom to vote. Do you remember when Bill Clinton came out of nowhere and ran against Bush Sr.? Bush had a reputation of being inimical to Israel. His cabinet included several openly anti-semitic influential members such as James Baker. One’s gut reaction was to vote for anyone but Bush Sr. Homework didn’t help much because not much was known of Bill Clinton at that time. I asked the shaila and was advised to vote for Bush Sr. Let’s play safe and ask, notwithstanding our homework or gut feelings.

When I needed to find out whom to vote, I didn’t call Rabbi M. Kotler or Rabbi S. Kamenetsky, but the rov that I ask such shailos on an ongoing basis. As such, the system doesn’t get clogged. As a matter of fact, I don’t contact the gedolim because my problems can be solved at the level of שרי חמשים ושרי עשרת (leaders of fifties and leader of tens). A rov of a shul, or a maggid shiur in a good yeshiva are excellent resources that we should avail ourselves of, for both technical shailos like kashrus, taharas hamishpacha, chinuch banim, as well voting for the right candidates. They typically are in synch with what the gedolim hold with regards to current social and political issues.

“blurring here of the distinctions between…”

I don’t understand why you make distinctions between different types of shailos. Granted, rabbanim become experts in certain fields. Poskim routinely refer us to those who acquired expertise in those fields. For instance, Rabbi Dovid Feinstein, Rosh Yeshiva of Tiferes Yerushalaim, is a בקי (expert) in shailos related to the medical field. When I had such a shaila, my rov promptly sent me to him. But as far as voting is concerned, I think any rov that we routinely ask our shailos from, could competently answer our questions.

1. A posek rendering a halachic judgment on a halachic issue, and

2. A posek rendering a personal judgment on another type of pressing issue (e.g., how to vote in 2008) using his “daas Torah”.

We have to consider carefully which things a Jew should do with consultation and which without. If the balance is wrong, the leading poskim can be so overwhelmed with inquiries as to guarantee that:

1. Many important questions will be unable to get a hearing
2. The posek himself will not have the time to investigate properly, so his judgment about the issue in question will be weakened by too-incomplete information

The idealized referral mechanism Dovid described can also break down when the shaila volume exceeds the available resources or when (for wahtever reason)referrals are not made as appropriate.

If you are asking whether I contend that every major life decision of a Jew requires a shaila, that means that I didn’t come across correctly. In my comments above, I was championing the cause of asking shailos in all decisions that have an immediate or less immediate effect in the life of the people concerned, “regardless of that Jew’s level of knowledge about the issue at hand”. Just as attorneys will hire attorneys to defend them in court, and surgeons have other surgeons operate on their family members, we should be wise enough, regardless of our level of knowledge about the issue at hand, to ask for daas Torah.

“Do you believe that poskim at the highest level have the necessary knowledge about American politics to be able to tell all Jews how to vote each time? Or only in really clear-cut cases?

Poskim in America have the necessary knowledge to guide us in matters pertaining to American politics. Those poskim who don’t have the necessary knowledge, will defer the shaila to ones who do have. The poskim of EY will also refer the shaila to American poskim who have the necessary expertise. There have been circumstances in which poskim couldn’t poskin. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939 from the west, and the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, there were thousands of Jewish families streaming eastward, fleeing the Nazis, as well as thousands of Jewish families streaming westward, fleeing the Communists. The Dayan of Brisk, a gaon and a tzaddik, could not poskin which of the two invaders presented a lesser danger, i.e., in which direction to try to escape. (Brisk was at time at the Russian-Polish border). Let’s hope we should not find ourselves in circumstances in which poskim cannot help us.

1. Do you contend that every major life decision of a Jew requires a shaila, regardless of that Jew’s level of knowldege about the issue at hand?

2. Do you believe that poskim at the highest level have the necessary knowledge about American politics to be able to tell all Jews how to vote each time? Or only in really clear-cut cases?

You are off again. I decide what condiments to spice my cholent with, but I won’t decide whom to vote in national elections. That’s what rabbis are for, to provide daas Torah. Jews went to the feast of Achashverosh because it was the “in” thing to do (everyone else went) and because it was the PC thing to do just as it was PC to vote for Obama. They thought of Mordechai as sort of an old fellow, out of touch with the political realities, one who “sometimes goes way overboard” as you put it. The food and wine they had at the feast were kosher l’Mehadrin and for seven years nothing happened which only reinforced their thinking that they were right, they knew the ways of the world, and that Mordechai was off the wall. After Achashverosh enacted the decree to annihilate all Jews, no one to this day denied that Mordechai was correct and everyone else was wrong. For those who may argue that we don’t have leaders of Mordechai’s stature today and therefore, there is no one to ask for guidance, Torah’s answer is that just as Hashem gave Mordechai the mandate to lead the Jews of his generation, Hashem gave the Torah leaders of our generation the mandate to lead and give us guidance. And we do know who those leaders are, both here in America and in Eretz Yisrael.

LOberstein, the above quote suggests that you believe you are wiser than the wise. My hunch is you didn’t think it was necessary to ask a שאלה as to whom to vote because “even the wise among us sometimes go way overboard.” Where do you look for answers in circumstances such as this? NYTimes? LATimes? If that’s the case, don’t delude yourself into believing you are an Orthodox Jew. You are not.”

Talk about going overboard. I guess my food is now treif and my wine is forbidden and I don’t count for a minyan if I voted in the United States for someone other than the one you decided I should vote for. Wow!

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The vast majority of those in attendance at both McCain and Obama rallies were well-behaved, well-spoken, decent people.

Both candidates also had some more fringe supporters. It would be hard to count exactly how many fringies there were, but my impression is that Obama had more of those unsavory characters at his rallies than McCain had at his rallies. The pro-Obama blogs have also tended more to the vicious side than the pro-McCain blogs, but anonymous blogging does seem to bring out the worst in fringies on both sides.

I’ve seen a lot of anti-Semitism from Obama supporters, especially from blacks.

You are absolutely wrong. A baby born outside of the US to a US citizen does not automatically become a US citizen.

Here is what the US State Department says (http://usembassy-israel.org.il/consular/acs/Report.aspx):

Children born abroad to U.S. citizen parents may have a claim to U.S. citizenship. If the parent(s) lived in the U.S. long enough to transmit citizenship …

* If only one parent is an American citizen and your child was born before November 14, 1986, the American parent must prove that he or she resided in the United States for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child, at least 5 of those years after the parent turned 14 years old.

Since Barack Obama was born before 1986 for his mother to pass on citizenship she would have had to have lived in the US for 5 years after the age of 14. Since Barack Obama was born when his mother was only 18 (less then 5 years after the age of 14) she would not be able to pass on her citizenship to him. Therefore if he was born outside of the US he would not be a natural born citizen.

Let’s set aside the soundness of these policies for now and assume they are what the American people need.

First, what makes you believe he will carry out these policies? He flip-flopped so many times. Second, suppose he does want to carry out his electoral promises, what makes you so sure he will succeed? There is nothing that we know about Obama to believe he can do it. His track record of formulating and carry out a sound policy is ZERO.

Hitler was voted into power because of his economic policies at a time Germany’s economy was experiencing hyperinflation and staggering unemployment. To this day, Germans will tell you that Hitler was good for the economy, he built the Reichsautobahn, reduced unemployment, and attempted to rein in inflation. Where they justified in voting for him? The current elections are taking place with a background of major turmoil in the capital markets, rising unemployment, and dissatisfaction with the US accomplishments in its foreign affairs. Is Obama qualified to handle any of these challenges?

Up to this point, I assert that based on the above, you are daydreaming and your vote is a gamble.

Let’s take a look at what we do know about Obama: his association with radical and terrorist movements and sympathizers, his 20-year membership in Wright’s church who repeatedly cursed America, attacked whites, Jews and others in Obama’s presence without Obama ever protesting. Doesn’t this bother you? Are you at peace voting for such a person? I assert that Obama doesn’t have the moral fiber to lead others.

I further assert that based on the above, your vote is no longer a gamble, but an irresponsible act.

I fully subscribe to your comments re. Governor Sarah Palin. She is a person of principles, with the strength to carry out her convictions. That’s why she is a worthy member of McCain’s team. Obama is everything Sarah Palin is not. In addition, I don’t understand why lack of experience is a major drawback by Sarah Palin but not by Obama. If Obama becomes president, he will need to make far-reaching decisions from day one. IF McCain wins, Sarah Palin as a VP is sheltered from such decisions at least until she learns the ropes.

“Are you comparing Haman to Obama? I just want to be clear on this. Or, are you merely pointing out parallels in the megillah to the current election?”

I am merely pointing out parallels in the megillah to the current election. And, as one who believes that God guides history, I am saying that regardless of the election’s outcome, the improbable, meteoric rise of both individuals is a clear indication of God’s hidden hand at work.

And, as my essay states, belief in Divine providence is NOT incompatible with the conviction that our actions – in the voting booth, in the synagogue, in the supermarket – shape history as well.

Thank you for both the content and the tone of your question.

Obama does have a birth certificate:

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20081101_officials_verify_birth_certificate_of_obama.html

Andy Martin, who has been spreading the rumor you fell for, is a first class anti-Semite who once ran for congress on a platform of opposing “Jew Power”.

But this is irrelevant! The Constitution requires that a President be a “natural born” citizen. Because his mother was unquestionably a US Citizen at the time of his birth, Obama is a natural born citizen. Sort of like the halachah for who is a Jew. Note that John McCain was born outside the United States, in the Panama Canal Zone. His father was in the navy, stationed there.

#21 Reb Yid,

You are correct. I am certain that John McCain is not a bigot or a racist or an anti-Semite, but it is clear that some of his supporters are. And unfortunately, some of the worst ones make comments on other frum blogs. I could not believe the awful stuff people posted to another site I will not mention about Obama’s grandmother ON THE DAY SHE DIED. I was embarassed to be a Jew.

It could also reflect his assessment of the empirical evidence demonstrating that nationalised health care leads to lower quality care. Obama similarly seems to be unable to “shake loose from the rigid ideological near worship” of governmental intervention.

I also see Sen. Obama’s foreign policy as being more flexible and more in touch with reality than the bellicosity that Sen. McCain has often expressed.

The reality is that there are incorrigibly evil people out there who can be defeated, but not persuaded.

Finally, it is quite clear that Sarah Palin simply does not have adequate understanding of world conditions to be President, and her anti-intellectualism makes it appear that she is even interested in learning. Sen. McCain’s selection of her as his running mate casts doubt on his ability to choose good people to serve in his adminstration.

I hesitate to respond to this, because it is a baseless (and, uncharacteristically for Charlie, quite snotty) personal attack on Sarah Palin. But following her admittedly poor initial interviews, she has actually shown a solid penchant for learning quite a lot in a short time, and, perhaps more importantly, she seems to have the appropriate instincts for distinguishing between good and bad ideas.

I leave the evaluation and interpretation of Senator Obama’s selection of friends and mentors to others.

LOberstein, the above quote suggests that you believe you are wiser than the wise. My hunch is you didn’t think it was necessary to ask a שאלה as to whom to vote because “even the wise among us sometimes go way overboard.” Where do you look for answers in circumstances such as this? NYTimes? LATimes? If that’s the case, don’t delude yourself into believing you are an Orthodox Jew. You are not.

“The election will soon be over and time will tell is the sky does indeed fall with the election of a Democrat.”

The sky may or may not fall. But the earth will certainly shake and Israel and Orthodox Jews (with whom you identify) will be hurting. With (or w/o) your permission, I will call on you to re-evaluate the situation in 6-12 months. With your vote, you brought it on us.

I see references to Haman here and one can’t help but think of our current Vice President, who was behind much of the worst of this administration’s abuses of power.

So yes, we’ll be getting something far different if Obama is elected…away from the “comfort zone” of this administration.

Thank God.

Absolutely true. But this does not mean we should freeze into inaction. Nor is our job to second guess G-d’s will, but to ask daas Torah. We have gedolim to elucidate for us what we need to do even in such circumstances.

Let’s get this clear. Obama is neither Haman nor Hitler. But given his lack of principles, clueliness (the state of being without a clue), and his sympathies for radical and terrorist movements and personalities will create fertile ground for the rise of 21st century Haman.

You are absolutely right. If he wants to run for president, the burden of proof that he qualifies should be on him. In addition, we know so little about Obama and what we know is damning that normally he couldn’t obtain security clearance necessary even for an entry level job at the New York Police Department.

Comment by Charles B. Hall — November 2, 2008 @ 10:01 pm

In our nation, every eligible person has a vote and that is praise to G-d. In regard to Governor Palin, I believe she is a real person – what you see is without glitter or facade – and her convictions are matched by her actions. Who really does know how to deal with a major crisis ? Is it intellectual ability that holds the highest card….or something else ? Sarah Palin is a woman of faith and she has practiced her faith through-out her entire life. I know in any crisis, above all experts, theories and intelligence data , she will first seek G-d and His wisdom, skill, and knowledge as many of her fellow believers do on a daily basis not out of rote or ritual but because G-d is real and He does draw near to those who draw near to Him and He does grant wisdom freely without pause. Whoever wins this election, I will still place my trust in G-d and pray for our new Presdent.