And it was posted on Cross-Currents, too:

http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/12/27/money-matters/

What is perplexing about this article is that the solutions suggested, while appropriate for the first category, seemed aimed at the latter category, for which they are almost irrelevant. It is therefore very difficult to take “seriously” an essay on poverty that does not consider the possibility of someone who is, in Rabbi Rosenblum’s own words, “sending children to bed and off to school hungry”, finding some sort of employment.

Or money from family, or a pre-purchased apartment (same thing). Very good point.

But the follow-up question is, how equipped are they for slight changes? What happens if one of the side incomes takes a hiccup, they have a baby, and their monthly rent go up 10% – all at the same time? Will that throw them into a permanent financial tailspin?

Talking about solutions is impossible to take seriously without being presented with hard data. What percentage of the money from Yad Eliezer, Chasdei Naomi, Kupat Ha’ir, local Kuppot and the like goes to families where the husband is in full time learning and the wife is not working. I suspect the great lion’s share of that money goes to where one of the spouses is an invalid or incapable of working, a child or more with crushing health bills, people who have lost their jobs, and the like. You’ll find many of the people learning in Kollel have side income – tutoring, shechitah, Hashgachah, winemaking, etc. and they are not taking any money from Tzedakah.

Without hard facts on what the numbers are, both in terms of recepients and actual dollars, it is impossible to gauge whether what is needed is tinkering, adjustment, or overhaul. And let there be no doubt that the more radical and jarring the adjustment, the more negative pushback and fallout you’ll get – and the more the phrase Yatza Secharo B’hefsedo looms large.

Living in trailers, as many dati leumi people already do in Yehudah and Shomron, would lower expenses even further.

Great comment, but I would generalize your remarks to say that THE solution is open-mindedness and creative thinking like you’re demonstrating.

Yes in my city of Bet Shemesh, charedim have campaigned vigorously against some new commercial areas (and defaced those that began construction anyway). The public campaign claims that these centers will bring chilul Shabbat, but in private the charedi moderates say some are trying to prevent availability of parnassah to the charedim themselves.

“I guess someone should inform my shomer shabbat husband who’s a partner in a hi tech startup ….” -Abbi

Not everyone can go into hi tech, which pays more than most professions in this country (including medicine). And most charedim will not be suited to become partners in such firms, even if they have the knack for programming.

“you do not….redeem one who is in the habit of continually selling himself into foreign slavery” – Elana (post #2)

An interesting solution, whether the “rest of us” should require some certification for every charity, that it requires an effort toward self-sufficiency. The problem is, not everything comes down to sources – how can a nation of rachmanim (inherently merciful people) refuse to feed and clothe tens of thousands of children, regardless of how they get to that point?

Or perhaps we should all send all our charity to places like Lemaan Achai, an Israeli charity that helps people from all flavors of religiosity, yet requires them to work toward self-sufficiency (or some degree of it in severe cases) over a period of months and years.

Similar to some socioeconomic groups in the U.S., the poverty that is being discussed in cyclical and multi-generational. Therefore, by maintaining the status quo, it is quite predictable according to derech hateva and basic economics. Arguing that the solutions will need to continue from the outside is just a perpetuation of this cycle of dependence

I sense that Chareidi writers like JR deep down believe that the powers that be in the leadership ranks, just “don’t get it” (but they can’t come out and write it for obvious reasons). Information is selectively filtered upward to Rabbinic figures on not only the problems but also the suggested solutions. Just look at the glossy inserts with pictures and “haskamos” for charities that will offer Yeshuos, Parnassa, etc. Any thoughtful person realizes that there are no such quick fixes. I have no doubt that some of the at-risk phenomenon for youth AND adults is predicated on the disillusionment created by the correlation between the Chareidi lifestyle and poverty. In some extreme circles, this correlation is portrayed as an ideal. But to many, the connection is one that is obvious and not palatable as a long-term solution. There reaches a point that they will not be concerned about “rebellion” and want a better future for themselves and their families—regardless of how positively their siblings who have towed the line, are perceived. If this newfound personal responsibility has no place the the chariedi world, they will find options outside of it. Leadership continuing to use the challenges of the Army, the krum outside world etc., as excuses not to work will soon become anachronistic. Because, it’s not about the Army or the outside world. It’s the statistical reality which has been borne out over the generations. That is, a Torah-only lifestyle is only a fit for a small percentage of the Torah-observant population. This ratio has always been in effect, dating back to the time of the Gemara. However, when the percentage is artificially reversed, forcing the Torah-only lifestyle on the masses as the only acceptable doctrine, there will be a correction in the other direction whether the powers that be like it or not.

Mishpacha isn’t just another Charedi publication. It has made real inroads in addressing issues that were long swept under the table in these communities. Hopefully, Jonathan Rosenblum will eventually write an article for them regarding the necessity of the Charedi community adopting a new attitude towards parnassa.

1. Minimizes suffering
2. Keeps as many people as possible observant, preferably as part of Charedi society

What is the minimum required change for more Charedim to become productive members of society?

(Dr. Rivka Blau was certain that Rav Kotler would never promote anything so insensitive regarding another Jew, yet I’ve heard the quote a number of times. Maybe it’s somewhat out of context?)

You write that “Without the influx of maximally committed Orthodox Jews fleeing the Holocaust and its aftermath, we might now be speaking of American Orthodoxy in the past tense.”

Highly unlikely. By 1940, American Orthodoxy was recovering from the rampant assimilation of the previous 100 years. There were budding day schools, yeshivos gedolos, and American boys were going to Europe and Eretz Yisroel to learn. The level of observance was starting to rise in the American community quite independent of those who came from Europe in the wake of the churban.

I wrote an article on this a few years ago called “the Black Hard Hat”. Rabbi Berel Wein read it and said, I quote, it was “just what the doctor ordered”. He encouraged me to get it published. I did submit it to one publication that will go unnamed. Perhaps now I should resubmit it.

Today’s challenge in Israel is to remain maximally committed to Judaism while building an entrepreneurial society capable of supporting itself “in golus bei Yidden” despite the unsympathetic government.
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That concern in obviated by geography. America in the 19th and much of the 20th centuries was not a Jewish fiendly place. True Jews were not singled out (usually) for disparate treatment, but no one made any accomodation for Jewish religious observance. Jews could not leave work early on Friday, and many, if not most, jobs requried one to work on Saturday. It was this enviornment that spurred the assimilation referenced above. I don’t think Israel would be quite as harsh a place vis-a-vis religious observance.

The golad should not be an entrepeneurial society. The goal is a community that is self sustaining.

I don’t know what age your son is, but the army generally does not want older soldiers. Nor does it want a father with 9 kids. It can’t do anything with these guys. They don’t serve long enough to make it worth the army’s while.

This has been the main anti-kiruv line for years and the healthy gut reaction of thousands of parents, and yes, it’s very sad.

BTW, does everyone here know that Jonathan Rosenblum graduated from Yale Law school? Obviously, he never encountered the kind of parental opposition that I just mentioned.

I guess someone should inform my shomer shabbat husband who’s a partner in a hi tech startup that he shouldn’t be there because he’s supposed to have a hard time competing against his secular parnters.