Mi k’amcha Yisroel! People who steadfastly hold onto their own “mesoras” that have no basis in mitzius and others who are insecure with their own (lack of) mesoras and feel compelled to pick up those of others.

“no milchigs”? Perhaps I have living under a rock. Please enlighhten me on the nature of that chumra.

I live in LA and a prominent rav told me some of the shailos that hotels in Palm Springs call him with on Motzei the first days of Pesach. He proudly tells everyone that if you no cleaning in your house at all, and just run a self-clean on your oven, pour hot water over your sink and cover your counters, your house will be more mehudar and kosher than any hotel out there. Unfortunately, we have confused pesach cleaning with spring cleaning as some people alluded to before.

Using the stressed-out wife excuse to spend $20,000 in a hotel is IMHO a red-herring. For $5,000, you can hire 2 cleaning crews, have 2 full-time maids attending your house and hire a professional chef to make your seudas. I once spent Pesach with a relative who actually did this and it was a beautiful, heimish family Pesach in their home with extended family and without the 24 hour tea room. This relative hired a chinese chef who cooked in their home for one week before pesach and the food was magnificent. They also keep many chumros and minhagim, such as using only salt (no spices at all), peeling all vegetables, no lettuce, no milchigs, etc. etc.

In closing, everyone should have a Chag Kosher V’sameach wherever they are spending it, wheather it is with mickey mouse and the seven dwarfs or the shvigger who takes after the evil witch.

In any case let me leave you with a “vort” i said (cannot remember if or where it was taken from or inspired by) on that mishna a few year back. The analogy of Avos d’Rabbi Nassan (1:5) perhaps hints at / teaches another point: Treat the halacha as precious. One puts a fence around something that is highly valued, worthy of being protected.

have a chag kosher ve’sameach

I entirely agree with this sentiment. [I would tell Garnel so himself, but he's probably already in transit to his hotel.] “Chumros” are fine, but for the sake of the integrity of halachah it is very important to differentiate between “chumra” and “ikkar ha’din”. [Interesting that Dr. Gewirtz mentions Adam and Eve. Avos d'Rabbi Nassan (1:5) cites Adam's "chumra" as the prototype for Rabbinical safeguards to Torah law (making a "fence" around the Torah). Evidently, the problem was that Adam did not make it sufficiently clear what the Torah required and what he added in order to protect Torah law.] But it is just as important (some would say even MORE important) to know what is “ikkar ha’din” and what is a “kula”. Just as not every stringency is “ikkar ha’din”, so not every leniency is. The halachic system recognizes that there is a time and a place for “chumros”, and a time and a place for “kulos”. In all cases, it is important to recognize what is a “kula”, what is “ikkar ha’din”, and what is a “chumra”.

I will sign off before Yom Tov with a story about someone who did understand the difference between a “chumra” and “ikkar ha’din” (this is one of those stories that is true even if it never happened).

When the Chasam Sofer became the Rabbi of Pressburg several years after the death of the previous Rabbi, Rav Meshullem Igra, he asked Rav Meshullem’s “gabbai” if he could tell him any anecdotes about R’ Meshullem. The “gabbai” told him the following story:

Every year before Pesach, Rav Meshullem Igra would invest tremendous effort in baking matzos that met the highest possible standards. From personally supervising the cutting of the wheat, grinding it into flour, scrubbing the entire baking area to remove even the slightest possible trace of “chometz”, etc., he spared neither time nor money to ensure that his matzos were “mehadrin min hamehadrin”. The sum product of all his efforts was six matzos, three for each seder night. He did not eat matzah the rest of Pesach.

One year, after he baked his six matzos, he stored them on top of his bookcase. On erev Pesach, the household maid was cooking “kneidlach” and needed matzah meal. She searched the house for matzah, and discovered Rav Meshulem’s six matzos. Before anyone realized what was going on, the maid had her “kneidlach”, and Rav Meshulem did not have his matzos. When the maid’s mistake was discovered, the house was in an uproar; everyone, that is, besides Rav Meshulem Igra. He said that it was an honest mistake and there was no reason to get upset at the maid. “But how will you get matzos for the seder,” worried his wife. “That’s no problem,” answered Rav Meshulem, “our neighbor Yankel the “shochet” bakes matzos for sale, and I’m sure he has some we can buy.”. “But how can you eat Yankel’s matzos?” his wife asked, “they don’t meet your standards.” Rav Meshulem answered, “There is nothing wrong with Yankel’s matzos. We eat the meat he “shechts”; we can eat the matzah he bakes as well.” “But he didn’t bake them with your ‘chumros’,” pointed out his wife. To which Rav Meshulem responded. “I did my part; I tried my best to have the most `mehudar’ matzos possible. If G-d willed that I don’t have such matzos this year, who am I to complain to Him.”

After the “gabbai” finished talking, the Chasam Sofer was quiet for a few moments. Then he told the Gabbai: “I don’t know how I would have reacted had such a mistake happened to me. But one thing I do know. Rav Meshulem Igra’s intent in instituting his matzah-baking `chumros’ must have been 100% for the sake of Heaven, to please G-d Who commanded us to eat matzah on Pesach night. Had he had even the slightest bit of self-interest, even RIGHTEOUS self-interest, he never could have reacted the way he did.”

On that note, I wish all the commenters and readers a “chag kasher v’sameach” and an enjoyable and meaningful Yom Tov wherever you may be. And if anyone decided to cancel their hotel reservations and needs a place to spend the Yom Tov, they are cordially invited to my house.

You are right that when speaking to a general audience, one has to take particular care to explain exactly what he means. But the Rabbi in question was not speaking to the “hamon am”; he was speaking to Jonathan Rosenblum, who understood quite well what he meant. And I have no doubt that Rabbi Wachsman, who WAS speaking to (and for) a general audience made clear what he meant as well. I doubt that he stood at the podium at the Agudah convention, declared that, “There is no ruchnius amidst gashmius” and then sat down.

The fact is, at least according to my nephew who is in the trade, that whether you advertise non-gbrkt, or you advertise that you serve gebrkt, will usually determine whether you will have women walking through the lobby in beach-wear. This is an observed sociological phenomenon. That it doesn’t make sense just means it’s more interesting.

I also understood the rabbi’s comment as not being literal. I wonder as well if even the materialism and superficiality, besides illnesses in of themselves, are also symptoms, or at least not the sole area where the focus needs to be.

If people feel alienated from their leaders, or there are other social ills which aren’t easily solved, they may not be receptive to hearing about excessive gashmiyus. I agree that the materialism is a problem in of itself, and I look forward to reading the follow-up to this article in Mishpacha.

Chag kasher v’someach to everyone.

As for Gebrocht/non-Gebrocht, Barzilai I assure you I know some very frum people who eat it. I hope you weren’t suggesting that’s the divide between MO and AgudahO.

Finally, as I head off to the hotel, I wish you all a Chag Kasher v’sameach full of health, happiness and meaning. Don’t forget to get some dietary fibre too!

I trust I will not be giving away too much, however, if I say that obviously no one in their right mind thinks that Pesach hotels are the greatest threat facing American Jewry, and neither do I. I note this now so that Garnel and his rabbi friend will be able to enjoy their respective Sederim without worry on this score. What I assume the rabbi I quoted meant is that the ready resort to Pesach hotels is a symptom of a larger malaise.

I’m puzzled to know why one correspondent wondered whether I intended modern Orthodox or Modern Orthodox rather than assuming that I wrote what I meant — modern Orthodox — or why so many chose to follow her down this unhelpful line of inquiry.

A number of correspondents have somehow assumed that Pesach cleaning is exclusively the province of women, and that it was not my place to have any thoughts on the issue. No doubt my wife is the hardest working member of our family in the run-up to Pesach, despite working full-time, but for both of us one of the greatest joys of the Chag is the way our six boys still at home dive into the really heavy tasks that neither of their aging parents are still inclined to do, and that our biggest question is, “How did we do this before the kids grew up?”

And, for general information: Gebrokts/non-gebrokts is just a demure way of advertising that you are looking for MO or BlackO.

by your argument, I would have to be one of world’s great machmirim.

While your reason might justify some (over-the-top) pious behavior, limiting speaking or fasting, for example, another reason is that gedolim honestly could not reconcile tradition with their understanding of a particular sugya and followed their logic, as a chumra. They did not necessarily seek out chumrot to be “yotzei lechol hadeyot.” That is yet a third basis for chumrot, which is more problematic and, as some have demonstrated, more prevalent of late than at almost anytime in our history. While I fully appreciate either of the first two reasons, particularly yours, the third, as i have been told by many who are so inclined, comes from a deeply held set of beliefs that I do not share.

CKVS to you as well. and btw I am not going to a HOTEL!

Reason being assumedly one takes on chumrot in recognition of character traits that require chumrot to perfect the individual in question.

KT&ckvs

Thank you for responding to my earlier post (#13), but I don’t think your reference is shulchan aruch is a proof that you have to clean your house (rather than simply looking for and removing chometz). True, the mechaber says that some have that custom to scrape/clean the walls, and they have a source in the yershalmi to rely on, but the implication is that we don’t have to do it. In fact, the Mishna Brura says that while we should not make fun of this custom, the support from the yerushalmi is questionable, since the case there is talking about someone who used dough to plaster the wall (see the shaar hatzion). The shaar hatzion says that the custom to scrape the walls is clearly a chumra since we don’t use dough plaster, even though we might have touched the walls with chometz.

However, in siman 434:11 the Rema says that everyone should sweep the house (l’chabed chadarav) before the search for chometz, and the mishna brura explains this is so the search will be feasible as it is difficult to search for chometz if the place is a mess. He says to do this the day before the bedikah. So, as I suggested, the obligation is really to set things in order so that one can check for chometz properly at the time of the bedika. There does not appear to be a proof to start cleaning after Purim or after TuB’shvat, as I have heard some people do. If a person wants to shine the floor, wash the windows, scrape/scrub the walls, etc, that is a chumra and the halacha is that I should not make fun of such a person, but I don’t have to do that myself. Of course, preparing and kashering the kitchen is a lot of work, but the rest of the house doesn’t have to be.

[What's up with Gebrokhts anyway? Sefardim have no such Mesorah; neither do Litvaks or Yekkes. Who's left? I didn't realize that we had so many Chasidim.]

Much of what I have seen in the form of Pesach behaviors is predicated on a total lack of understanding of Halacha, especially the fundamental principles in Yoreh Deah. This is most evident if you have ever stood in line at a place that does “kashering” before Pesach. Items like candlesticks and the like which were never used with any hot food, not only are unnecessary, but of course back up the line for guys like me who have things we really need to kasher. I heard a reputable Posek say that even Kiddush cups really don’t have to be kashered for the aforementioned reason. I agree totally. But, for Shalom Bayis, I take the Kiddush cups.

Not to mention those who have no hestiation to be lax in other less popular areas of observance who see no contradiction with staring for 10 minutes in the supermarket to seek out a certain brand of poison floor cleaner that is printed in their Pesach “digest”. Halivai, those same people would peek into a Haggadah before the Seder for half of the amount of time of this deliberation. Maybe these are the people who should be going to a hotel. (Then again, they’d probably still seek out the same approved floor cleaner so it would not be chametz she’avar alav HaPesach.)

Garnel, if your our Rav does not support the chumros or decisions you objected to, why are you so concerned about other people’s choices in the matter?