Comments on: A Response to My Critics http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/ A Journal of Jewish Thought and Opinion Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:28:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Chaim Wolfson http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-237328 Chaim Wolfson Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:44:19 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-237328 Re: Toby Katz's comments (#4,68). The Maimonides student body does, in fact, contain a large percentage of students from secular homes (at least it did in my days in Boston, though it may be different now), and I believe that has an impact on its curriculum and school policy. But that doesn't make the school a failure. Any student from a secular background who becomes Shomer Shabbos as a result of attending Maimonides (and there are many who have) is an unqualified success. Rav Soloveitchik is reported to have said that Maiminides is his ticket to "Gan Eden" (I cannot verify this, but I heard it from a friend of mine who went to Maimonides). I believe that he was referring to the many students who came closer to Yiddishkeit as a result of their Maimonides education. Maimonides may not be for everyone (my parents would have home-schooled me rather than send me to Maimonides, where my mother was a teacher for several years), but it has its fair share of successes, and we should all recognize that. Re: Toby Katz’s comments (#4,68). The Maimonides student body does, in fact, contain a large percentage of students from secular homes (at least it did in my days in Boston, though it may be different now), and I believe that has an impact on its curriculum and school policy. But that doesn’t make the school a failure. Any student from a secular background who becomes Shomer Shabbos as a result of attending Maimonides (and there are many who have) is an unqualified success. Rav Soloveitchik is reported to have said that Maiminides is his ticket to “Gan Eden” (I cannot verify this, but I heard it from a friend of mine who went to Maimonides). I believe that he was referring to the many students who came closer to Yiddishkeit as a result of their Maimonides education. Maimonides may not be for everyone (my parents would have home-schooled me rather than send me to Maimonides, where my mother was a teacher for several years), but it has its fair share of successes, and we should all recognize that.

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-237322 Jewish Observer Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:38:04 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-237322 "I wonder if he truly meant what he clearly implied: that Maimonides is not a Torah-true mosad." - I meant that was the implication of the maligners “I wonder if he truly meant what he clearly implied: that Maimonides is not a Torah-true mosad.”

- I meant that was the implication of the maligners

]]> By: Yitzchok Adlerstein http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-237008 Yitzchok Adlerstein Sun, 02 Sep 2007 06:55:52 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-237008 In defending decision not to censor my remarks, R’ Adlerstein wrote, “This one I would defend.” What I said was that I would defend the decision to publish it, betting (successfully, it turned out) that the charge would be challenged by other readers. I did not say that I agreed with the assessment of Maimonides. I said that CC editors would not allow similar comments directed against individuals, even if they would also be likely to be refuted. The difference is that people's feelings are hurt first and mollified later; the same is not true of institutions. In defending decision not to censor my remarks, R’ Adlerstein wrote, “This one I would defend.”

What I said was that I would defend the decision to publish it, betting (successfully, it turned out) that the charge would be challenged by other readers. I did not say that I agreed with the assessment of Maimonides.

I said that CC editors would not allow similar comments directed against individuals, even if they would also be likely to be refuted. The difference is that people’s feelings are hurt first and mollified later; the same is not true of institutions.

]]> By: Toby Katz http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-236874 Toby Katz Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:47:48 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-236874 I was the one who wrote "As for Maimonides, there is no question that the school has been on the whole a great failure, EVEN from a Torah uMada perspective, possibly for reasons having to do with a pretty secular Boston parent body." Apparently having read only the first half of that sentence, R' Gil Student accused me of maligning all the rebbeim and mechanchim ever associated with the Maimonides school. Had he just gotten to the end of my sentence -- "a pretty secular Boston parent body" -- he could have saved all of us a lot of unnecessary angst. In defending decision not to censor my remarks, R' Adlerstein wrote, “This one I would defend.” And Jewish Observer responded: "I think the point was rhetorical; that this level of shtoch would normally not be tolerated if directed at Torah-true mosdot." I wonder if he truly meant what he clearly implied: that Maimonides is not a Torah-true mosad. I was the one who wrote “As for Maimonides, there is no question that the school has been on the whole a great failure, EVEN from a Torah uMada perspective, possibly for reasons having to do with a pretty secular Boston parent body.”

Apparently having read only the first half of that sentence, R’ Gil Student accused me of maligning all the rebbeim and mechanchim ever associated with the Maimonides school. Had he just gotten to the end of my sentence — “a pretty secular Boston parent body” — he could have saved all of us a lot of unnecessary angst.

In defending decision not to censor my remarks, R’ Adlerstein wrote, “This one I would defend.” And Jewish Observer responded:

“I think the point was rhetorical; that this level of shtoch would normally not be tolerated if directed at Torah-true mosdot.”

I wonder if he truly meant what he clearly implied: that Maimonides is not a Torah-true mosad.

]]> By: Bob Miller http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-235152 Bob Miller Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:20:53 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-235152 Have we absorbed some wrong attitudes from our host society? This is from "Be True to Your School" (Beach Boys): "When some loud braggart tries to put me down And says his school is great I tell him right away 'Now what's the matter buddy Ain't you heard of my school Its number one in the state'" Have we absorbed some wrong attitudes from our host society?

This is from “Be True to Your School” (Beach Boys):

“When some loud braggart tries to put me down
And says his school is great
I tell him right away
‘Now what’s the matter buddy
Ain’t you heard of my school
Its number one in the state’”

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234982 Jewish Observer Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:38:20 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234982 "JO, over HANC?" - maybe it's a tie “JO, over HANC?”

- maybe it’s a tie

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234980 Jewish Observer Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:37:35 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234980 "dan lekav zechut" - kaf (as in modern Hebrew word for spoon) zechut refers to the side of the scale that holds zechut “dan lekav zechut”

- kaf (as in modern Hebrew word for spoon) zechut refers to the side of the scale that holds zechut

]]> By: Chaim Wolfson http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234890 Chaim Wolfson Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:44:47 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234890 "I vote for Alabama chinuch!" (Comment by Jewish Observer — August 29, 2007 @ 7:38 pm) JO, over HANC? “I vote for Alabama chinuch!” (Comment by Jewish Observer — August 29, 2007 @ 7:38 pm)

JO, over HANC?

]]> By: LAWRENCE KAPLAN http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234853 LAWRENCE KAPLAN Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:55:40 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234853 Shira Schmidt: Thank you for providing us with the moving account of Ada Jakobovitz, and thank you Ada Jakobovitz for the account. Among other things, it reminded me once again of the greatness of my Rebbe. Shira Schmidt: Thank you for providing us with the moving account of Ada Jakobovitz, and thank you Ada Jakobovitz for the account. Among other things, it reminded me once again of the greatness of my Rebbe.

]]> By: dr. william gewirtz http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234834 dr. william gewirtz Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:16:21 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234834 If one could have been dan lekav zechut and excuse those eight sentences as written in haste, that option is now moot. I find nothing in the clarification to address the precise language of those sentances or even admit to a (poor) choice of words that led this audience to badly misinterpret. Instead we are treated to a classic set of misdirection plays (perhaps another example of Yale JD training on the defense of guilty clients): 1) focus on the critics and target any of their miscues, 2) raise larger issues a) gedolim grown in the environment of Germany versus Lithuania, b) a gripe with the TUMJ and c) a critique of R. Lamm and 3) preface all that with----some of my best friends (poskim) are... An executive who I worked for many years ago was fond of saying: if you want to get out of a ditch, quit digging. If one could have been dan lekav zechut and excuse those eight sentences as written in haste, that option is now moot. I find nothing in the clarification to address the precise language of those sentances or even admit to a (poor) choice of words that led this audience to badly misinterpret. Instead we are treated to a classic set of misdirection plays (perhaps another example of Yale JD training on the defense of guilty clients):
1) focus on the critics and target any of their miscues,
2) raise larger issues a) gedolim grown in the environment of Germany versus Lithuania, b) a gripe with the TUMJ and c) a critique of R. Lamm and
3) preface all that with—-some of my best friends (poskim) are…

An executive who I worked for many years ago was fond of saying: if you want to get out of a ditch, quit digging.

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234821 Jewish Observer Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:38:17 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234821 "I just like being Jewish and like what comes along with it and really do love all Jews. That’s the chinuch I got in Alabama" - I vote for Alabama chinuch! “I just like being Jewish and like what comes along with it and really do love all Jews. That’s the chinuch I got in Alabama”

- I vote for Alabama chinuch!

]]> By: Shira Schmidt http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234734 Shira Schmidt Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:10:05 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234734 15 bELlul Some commentators asked to hear from Maimonides alumni. I received the following from Mrs. Ada Jacobowitz who was in one of the first graduating classes of Maimonides. In our class two of the boys went to YU. The third went to hachshara, made aliya, has earned awards from the State of Israel for his contributions to its safety, and learns regularly. The one girl in the class who went to an ‘Ivy’ married a man who recently retired as principal of a Bais Yaakov high school. The other two girls went to college and graduate school, married men who earned PhDs and live observant lives. For example, one of the men turned down an offer to play with the L.A. symphony because they wanted him to play Friday nights. The paradox of particular vs. universal was obvious and dealt with as part of life’s complexities. We learned to partake of the best in our secular surroundings, to join but not to merge. In response to comments as to which we were taught to value more -- our religious or secular studies, I would respond that we were taught that it is our job as Jews to lead holy lives. If digging a ditch do it well, put up barriers etc. as the Torah teaches. If working in a lab be aware that we are learning about Hashem’s creation. Keep the work holy. If a doctor, remember that only with Hashem’s help can we help heal our fellow man who was created bitzelem (in His image); in business be aware of Hashem seeing us and conduct ourselves in a holy manner. Rabbi Soloveitchik said -as best I remember – that we worship Hashem in our kitchen, our bedroom , in the street, at our work -- our whole life is to be in His service. In Judaism we find joy and beauty in the world. Once when Rabbi Soloveitchik took us to watch a restaurant kosher its kitchen for Pesah it was also the time of a lunar eclipse. After koshering the kitchen on the way home he explained the workings of Hashem’s world in relation to he eclipse. It was a seamless whole-- from the exodus to the eclipse, both were part of Hashem’s world. In Maimonides I learned that we should learn from all and take the good. We could listen to the beauty of Mozart and Beethoven without adopting the belief system of the composers. I am very grateful for the training I got at Maimonides. An appreciative alumna of Maimonides. Ada Jacobowitz 15 bELlul Some commentators asked to hear from Maimonides alumni. I received the following from Mrs. Ada Jacobowitz who was in one of the first graduating classes of Maimonides.

In our class two of the boys went to YU. The third went to hachshara, made aliya, has earned awards from the State of Israel for his contributions to its safety, and learns regularly. The one girl in the class who went to an ‘Ivy’ married a man who recently retired as principal of a Bais Yaakov high school. The other two girls went to college and graduate school, married men who earned PhDs and live observant lives. For example, one of the men turned down an offer to play with the L.A. symphony because they wanted him to play Friday nights.

The paradox of particular vs. universal was obvious and dealt with as part of life’s complexities. We learned to partake of the best in our secular surroundings, to join but not to merge.

In response to comments as to which we were taught to value more — our religious or secular studies, I would respond that we were taught that it is our job as Jews to lead holy lives. If digging a ditch do it well, put up barriers etc. as the Torah teaches. If working in a lab be aware that we are learning about Hashem’s creation. Keep the work holy. If a doctor, remember that only with Hashem’s help can we help heal our fellow man who was created bitzelem (in His image); in business be aware of Hashem seeing us and conduct ourselves in a holy manner. Rabbi Soloveitchik said -as best I remember – that we worship Hashem in our kitchen, our bedroom , in the street, at our work — our whole life is to be in His service. In Judaism we find joy and beauty in the world.

Once when Rabbi Soloveitchik took us to watch a restaurant kosher its kitchen for Pesah it was also the time of a lunar eclipse. After koshering the kitchen on the way home he explained the workings of Hashem’s world in relation to he eclipse. It was a seamless whole– from the exodus to the eclipse, both were part of Hashem’s world.

In Maimonides I learned that we should learn from all and take the good. We could listen to the beauty of Mozart and Beethoven without adopting the belief system of the composers.

I am very grateful for the training I got at Maimonides. An appreciative alumna of Maimonides. Ada Jacobowitz

]]> By: Loberstein http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234307 Loberstein Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:15:33 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234307 I appreciate Jewish Observer's comments on my comments. The problem as I understand it is that modern orthodox people don't want to hear criticism from a chareidi. They will make the same critique among themselves but get defensive if an outsider says the exact same thing . Chareidi society is often worse. Every week in Yated, Hamodia, Mishpacha, someone writes " How could a frum publication print"( an opinion that the writer feels is against his understanding of Torah Judaism). Mishpacha published a letter from a person who says that we live in the 21st century and we have to learn to live with the internet . In the next issue someone holier than he wrote that it is wrong that Mishpacha printed the first letter as it has been settled by the gewdolim that it is better to lose your parnasa than to let the internet into your home, case closed. I am of a different hashhafa, I just like being Jewish and like what comes along with it and really do love all Jews. That's the chinuch I got in Alabama and all my years in the Torah world have not bleached it out of me. I am a Jew, period. I appreciate Jewish Observer’s comments on my comments. The problem as I understand it is that modern orthodox people don’t want to hear criticism from a chareidi. They will make the same critique among themselves but get defensive if an outsider says the exact same thing . Chareidi society is often worse. Every week in Yated, Hamodia, Mishpacha, someone writes ” How could a frum publication print”( an opinion that the writer feels is against his understanding of Torah Judaism). Mishpacha published a letter from a person who says that we live in the 21st century and we have to learn to live with the internet . In the next issue someone holier than he wrote that it is wrong that Mishpacha printed the first letter as it has been settled by the gewdolim that it is better to lose your parnasa than to let the internet into your home, case closed.
I am of a different hashhafa, I just like being Jewish and like what comes along with it and really do love all Jews. That’s the chinuch I got in Alabama and all my years in the Torah world have not bleached it out of me. I am a Jew, period.

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234219 Jewish Observer Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:55:31 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234219 "owing to the different parent bodies of the schools" a good and obviously correct point. Judging Maimonides success by how many gedolim it produced versus e.g. Chaim Berlin is like comparing how many Arachim shabbaton alumni are frum versus alumni of Agudah conventions. according to JR's theory, american elementary yeshivos should be co-ed because of the disproportionate number (per my anecdotal estimation) of talmidei chachamim that came out of these schools verus regular heimishe schools “owing to the different parent bodies of the schools”

a good and obviously correct point. Judging Maimonides success by how many gedolim it produced versus e.g. Chaim Berlin is like comparing how many Arachim shabbaton alumni are frum versus alumni of Agudah conventions.

according to JR’s theory, american elementary yeshivos should be co-ed because of the disproportionate number (per my anecdotal estimation) of talmidei chachamim that came out of these schools verus regular heimishe schools

]]> By: lawrence kaplan http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234158 lawrence kaplan Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:07:23 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234158 I have been thinking about Jonathan Rosenblum's original article. First, is is probably unfair to Maimonides School. But let us assume with the former YU blogger that Maimonides has a lower profile in the YU Beth midrash, KBY, Gush, Shalavim etc. than other MO high schools. As former YU himself says this is probably owing to the different parent bodies of the schools. But JR subtly (and not subtly in the Yated) attributes the supposedly poor record of Maimonides to Rabbi Lamm's view of TUM. For him to then turn around and deny that his article was a critique of MO in general strikes me as unconvincing. And since Rabbi Lamm served as President of YU for some 25-30 years, Steve Brizel's referring to YU was in place. I have been thinking about Jonathan Rosenblum’s original article. First, is is probably unfair to Maimonides School. But let us assume with the former YU blogger that Maimonides has a lower profile in the YU Beth midrash, KBY, Gush, Shalavim etc. than other MO high schools. As former YU himself says this is probably owing to the different parent bodies of the schools. But JR subtly (and not subtly in the Yated) attributes the supposedly poor record of Maimonides to Rabbi Lamm’s view of TUM. For him to then turn around and deny that his article was a critique of MO in general strikes me as unconvincing. And since Rabbi Lamm served as President of YU for some 25-30 years, Steve Brizel’s referring to YU was in place.

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234135 Jewish Observer Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:43:54 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234135 "the two guys my year who know the most Torah (and whom I know)—one went to Frisch and the other went to Maimonides." - reminds of a story reputedly attributed to the Brisker Rav (or his son, not sure). a talmid sitting in a taxi with the BR pointed to a yid outside and said, "that person is known as the Chofetz CHaim of America". So the Rav responded, "and I am the Rabbi Akiv Eiger of thi taxi". it's not a nice story, just a funny one. and I don't mean anything bad about Maimo or Frisch. just imaging some what some people's reactions to it might be. “the two guys my year who know the most Torah (and whom I know)—one went to Frisch and the other went to Maimonides.”

- reminds of a story reputedly attributed to the Brisker Rav (or his son, not sure). a talmid sitting in a taxi with the BR pointed to a yid outside and said, “that person is known as the Chofetz CHaim of America”. So the Rav responded, “and I am the Rabbi Akiv Eiger of thi taxi”. it’s not a nice story, just a funny one. and I don’t mean anything bad about Maimo or Frisch. just imaging some what some people’s reactions to it might be.

]]> By: Gil Student http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234086 Gil Student Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:56:00 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234086 "Maimonides has a lower profile in the YU beis medrash, even when compared with Frisch, Haftr and certainly with the all boy schools" Could be. I don't know. All I know is that the two guys my year who know the most Torah (and whom I know) -- one went to Frisch and the other went to Maimonides. “Maimonides has a lower profile in the YU beis medrash, even when compared with Frisch, Haftr and certainly with the all boy schools”

Could be. I don’t know. All I know is that the two guys my year who know the most Torah (and whom I know) — one went to Frisch and the other went to Maimonides.

]]> By: Bob Miller http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234070 Bob Miller Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:08:46 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234070 Jonathan, In this discussion, you have been accused of naivete! ("I hope Mr. Rosenblum’s naivete is unintentional") Don't take this grave accusation lying down. Them's fighting words. Jonathan,

In this discussion, you have been accused of naivete! (”I hope Mr. Rosenblum’s naivete is unintentional”)

Don’t take this grave accusation lying down. Them’s fighting words.

]]> By: Chaim Wolfson http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234062 Chaim Wolfson Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:51:41 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234062 Nachum: First, I apologize for misspelling your name; no insult intended. Second, sports stars coming off bad seasons sign megamillion dollar free agent contracts based on reputation. Ideas are judged by different criteria, or at least they seem to be on this blog. Nachum: First, I apologize for misspelling your name; no insult intended. Second, sports stars coming off bad seasons sign megamillion dollar free agent contracts based on reputation. Ideas are judged by different criteria, or at least they seem to be on this blog.

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234050 Jewish Observer Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:32:47 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234050 "So, let’s do teshuva in Elul and disagree more agreeably." Dear Rabbi Oberstein, Don't you think your words could fairly be directed straight at JR who could have prevented the nastiness from starting by not making the shtoch in the first place? Further, don't you think he could swiftly put it to a peaceful end by apologizing now? Love (and hugs) to all, Aaron “So, let’s do teshuva in Elul and disagree more agreeably.”

Dear Rabbi Oberstein,

Don’t you think your words could fairly be directed straight at JR who could have prevented the nastiness from starting by not making the shtoch in the first place? Further, don’t you think he could swiftly put it to a peaceful end by apologizing now?

Love (and hugs) to all,

Aaron

]]> By: Steve Brizel http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234045 Steve Brizel Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:22:48 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234045 Former YU's comments are well stated and indicative of a process of due diligence that I have been proposing since the publication of Noah Feldman's article. However, one can and should distinguish between a course correction consisting of due diligence by educators, parents and students as to the proper venue for their higher education, regardless of where they attend yeshiva or seminary, and viewing MO educators and parents as invariably geared towards the "nachas" of Ivy acceptances with no appreciation for the value of Torah study or even attending YU or SCW.IMO, the discussions on Hirhurim and Lookjed are evidence that the concept of due diligence is alive and well among the parent body of these schools. However, I would agree that the larger issue is how parents and their children interact upon the return of a son or daughter who is more Mdadkek Bmitzvos than upon his or her departure and how both parents and their children handle the process that some call flipping out and others view as religious growth. Former YU’s comments are well stated and indicative of a process of due diligence that I have been proposing since the publication of Noah Feldman’s article. However, one can and should distinguish between a course correction consisting of due diligence by educators, parents and students as to the proper venue for their higher education, regardless of where they attend yeshiva or seminary, and viewing MO educators and parents as invariably geared towards the “nachas” of Ivy acceptances with no appreciation for the value of Torah study or even attending YU or SCW.IMO, the discussions on Hirhurim and Lookjed are evidence that the concept of due diligence is alive and well among the parent body of these schools. However, I would agree that the larger issue is how parents and their children interact upon the return of a son or daughter who is more Mdadkek Bmitzvos than upon his or her departure and how both parents and their children handle the process that some call flipping out and others view as religious growth.

]]> By: Jewish Observer http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234042 Jewish Observer Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:18:14 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234042 "JO, what I meant was that one generally does not become a Talmid Chacham in elementary school" I hear. That said, I know from my own elementary school days that many of my classmates who went on to become torah stars already showed signs of being on that trajectory in elementary school. “JO, what I meant was that one generally does not become a Talmid Chacham in elementary school”

I hear. That said, I know from my own elementary school days that many of my classmates who went on to become torah stars already showed signs of being on that trajectory in elementary school.

]]> By: Zev http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234036 Zev Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:08:40 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234036 Holly L. wrote: <i>Dear Rabbi Rosenblum, It pained me deeply that you wrote “As for Maimonides, there is no question that the school has been on the whole a great failure.”</i> These lines were not written by Rosenblum, but by one of the commenters on this thread. Holly L. wrote:
Dear Rabbi Rosenblum,
It pained me deeply that you wrote “As for Maimonides, there is no question that the school has been on the whole a great failure.”

These lines were not written by Rosenblum, but by one of the commenters on this thread.

]]> By: Chaim Wolfson http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234012 Chaim Wolfson Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:06:22 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234012 "you could probably make the same argument about many Lakewood stars. After all, how many Lakewood bochurim don’t come from otherwise good torah backgrounds?" (Comment by Jewish Observer — August 27, 2007 @ 6:35 pm). JO, what I meant was that one generally does not become a Talmid Chacham in elementary school. That's not intended as a criticism of Maimonides, although as a Bostonian born and bred, I do have my share of issues with the school. The fact that that they first begin teaching Gemara in eighth grade (or at least that's the way it was when I was growing up in Boston) is not one of them, but it does mean that if R' Kaganoff left Maimonides after eighth grade, his Gemara background can only be attributed to his high sachool/post high school education and to learning with his father at home. “you could probably make the same argument about many Lakewood stars. After all, how many Lakewood bochurim don’t come from otherwise good torah backgrounds?” (Comment by Jewish Observer — August 27, 2007 @ 6:35 pm).

JO, what I meant was that one generally does not become a Talmid Chacham in elementary school. That’s not intended as a criticism of Maimonides, although as a Bostonian born and bred, I do have my share of issues with the school. The fact that that they first begin teaching Gemara in eighth grade (or at least that’s the way it was when I was growing up in Boston) is not one of them, but it does mean that if R’ Kaganoff left Maimonides after eighth grade, his Gemara background can only be attributed to his high sachool/post high school education and to learning with his father at home.

]]> By: Gershon Seif http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234002 Gershon Seif Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:54:28 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/08/26/a-response-to-my-critics/#comment-234002 "I believe in TIDE but not in TuM—for reasons that would need a book. I wish someone would write that book." (Toby Katz) Nu, you are a writer with just the right yichus for the job. I say this is a mokom l'hisgader bo. Go for it! “I believe in TIDE but not in TuM—for reasons that would need a book. I wish someone would write that book.” (Toby Katz)

Nu, you are a writer with just the right yichus for the job. I say this is a mokom l’hisgader bo. Go for it!

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