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	<title>Comments on: Invitation to Intermarriage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/</link>
	<description>A Journal of Jewish Thought and Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Steve Brizel</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-219035</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Brizel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 00:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-219035</guid>
		<description>For those interested , the OU website has a crucial exchange of letters between the Times and the OU on the issue of the photograph. In a nutshell, the Times is playing hardball despite the evidence that there was no photocropping of Feldman and his companion at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested , the OU website has a crucial exchange of letters between the Times and the OU on the issue of the photograph. In a nutshell, the Times is playing hardball despite the evidence that there was no photocropping of Feldman and his companion at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dina</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-218036</link>
		<dc:creator>Dina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-218036</guid>
		<description>What was Feldman's point? 1) He himself admits no rabbi at Maimonides refused to shake his hand at reunion, none of his friends ostracized him, all were polite and congenial; 2) He knew that the removal of his picture was the result of the cropping of more than 15 people, not personally aimed; 3) Therefore, the only "rejection" he experienced in actuality was that the school alumni newsletter did not print mazel tovs on his intermarriage and the birth of his goyishe children.  I can't imagine a more measured response by an orthodox institution when faced with the intermarriage of an alumnus.

Because of this "insult" he goes ahead and blasts Orthodox Judaism publicly, listing some incredibly sensitive halachas such as saving non-Jewish life on Shabbos, which have nothing to do with intermarriage, implying that his intermarriage was something more than simply a personal choice, but a moral one as well.

I can't imagine a story so narcissistic, so self-justifying, so insubstantial and irrelevant, that if the Times received it from anyone else, about any other religion, that it would be published on the front page of the Magazine section. Its agenda driven purpose is transparent and it is an embarrassment to Feldman and the Times. I hope both their reputations suffer as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What was Feldman&#8217;s point? 1) He himself admits no rabbi at Maimonides refused to shake his hand at reunion, none of his friends ostracized him, all were polite and congenial; 2) He knew that the removal of his picture was the result of the cropping of more than 15 people, not personally aimed; 3) Therefore, the only &#8220;rejection&#8221; he experienced in actuality was that the school alumni newsletter did not print mazel tovs on his intermarriage and the birth of his goyishe children.  I can&#8217;t imagine a more measured response by an orthodox institution when faced with the intermarriage of an alumnus.</p>
<p>Because of this &#8220;insult&#8221; he goes ahead and blasts Orthodox Judaism publicly, listing some incredibly sensitive halachas such as saving non-Jewish life on Shabbos, which have nothing to do with intermarriage, implying that his intermarriage was something more than simply a personal choice, but a moral one as well.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine a story so narcissistic, so self-justifying, so insubstantial and irrelevant, that if the Times received it from anyone else, about any other religion, that it would be published on the front page of the Magazine section. Its agenda driven purpose is transparent and it is an embarrassment to Feldman and the Times. I hope both their reputations suffer as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: G B</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-217961</link>
		<dc:creator>G B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-217961</guid>
		<description>http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Not_Cropped.asp

Turns out Noah Feldman knew all along he was not intentionally cropped out of the picture, but chose not to reveal that fact when he wrote the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Not_Cropped.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Not_Cropped.asp</a></p>
<p>Turns out Noah Feldman knew all along he was not intentionally cropped out of the picture, but chose not to reveal that fact when he wrote the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahron</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-216545</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-216545</guid>
		<description>Roman Catholic,

Point well noted. I should have clarified that there "was no Photoshop here". Advanced digital image manipulation tools didn't become prominent and widespread at the consumer level until the early 21st century, and it seems a safe assumption that a small alumni newsletter would not have spent the substantial money in the mid-1990s on such a hyperpowered professional tool.

The real giveaway, however, was Feldman's very assumption that his old school would have taken the time and trouble to adeptly target he and his fiancé for subtle removal from a class photo--and he delivered the distinct impression to readers that the photographer or newsletter had employed some sophisticated airbrushing or digital manipulation tool to subtly excise him and his fiancé from the image while leaving everybody else none the wiser about the erasure. But the good doctor did presumeth too much.

The supposed "exclusion" was nothing but a poorly taken photo and Dr. Feldman's self-involved presumptions nothing more than that. But since Feldman's article was meant to be a "memoir of my experience"--an experience that we now know, and he already knew, was built on projections and false assumptions--he apparently felt no need to correct the record and no compunctions about spreading untrue insinuations and baseless umbrage against his old school.

One now wonders why the NY Times, which rejected publication of the ostensibly otherizing photo once its oh-so-blasé reality became known, still permitted Feldman to write falsely about it in his column.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roman Catholic,</p>
<p>Point well noted. I should have clarified that there &#8220;was no Photoshop here&#8221;. Advanced digital image manipulation tools didn&#8217;t become prominent and widespread at the consumer level until the early 21st century, and it seems a safe assumption that a small alumni newsletter would not have spent the substantial money in the mid-1990s on such a hyperpowered professional tool.</p>
<p>The real giveaway, however, was Feldman&#8217;s very assumption that his old school would have taken the time and trouble to adeptly target he and his fiancé for subtle removal from a class photo&#8211;and he delivered the distinct impression to readers that the photographer or newsletter had employed some sophisticated airbrushing or digital manipulation tool to subtly excise him and his fiancé from the image while leaving everybody else none the wiser about the erasure. But the good doctor did presumeth too much.</p>
<p>The supposed &#8220;exclusion&#8221; was nothing but a poorly taken photo and Dr. Feldman&#8217;s self-involved presumptions nothing more than that. But since Feldman&#8217;s article was meant to be a &#8220;memoir of my experience&#8221;&#8211;an experience that we now know, and he already knew, was built on projections and false assumptions&#8211;he apparently felt no need to correct the record and no compunctions about spreading untrue insinuations and baseless umbrage against his old school.</p>
<p>One now wonders why the NY Times, which rejected publication of the ostensibly otherizing photo once its oh-so-blasé reality became known, still permitted Feldman to write falsely about it in his column.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-216285</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-216285</guid>
		<description>"I was digitally removing objects and people from photos in the early ‘90s."  

Put them back!  They've paid their dues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I was digitally removing objects and people from photos in the early ‘90s.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Put them back!  They&#8217;ve paid their dues.</p>
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		<title>By: Roman Catholic</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-215874</link>
		<dc:creator>Roman Catholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-215874</guid>
		<description>Ahron says:  "It’s appropriate to note that the “airbrushing” allegation is a total red herring. This was 1996 or so. There was no Photoshop. No airbursh was applied."

Just for the record, Photoshop came out in 1990. I was digitally removing objects and people from photos in the early '90s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahron says:  &#8220;It’s appropriate to note that the “airbrushing” allegation is a total red herring. This was 1996 or so. There was no Photoshop. No airbursh was applied.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just for the record, Photoshop came out in 1990. I was digitally removing objects and people from photos in the early &#8217;90s.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahron</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-215481</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-215481</guid>
		<description>How lovely. The &lt;a href="http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=14367" rel="nofollow"&gt; NY Jewish Week now reports&lt;/a&gt; that even Mr. Feldman has been forced to acknowledge that the Maimonides School never "cropped" him out of a photograph at all. Rather, about 16 people in total at either end of the group photo simply overflowed outside the frame. The picture was simply mis-taken, Feldman and 15 friends were at the out-of-frame end, and the personalized "exclusion" and 'otherizing' that Feldman claims to have experienced from that event is in fact his own self-generated projection. The only thing that's been airbrushed here seems to be Mr. Feldman's self-involved pictodrama. Is Dr. Rorschach in the house?

Even more lovely: Feldman admits that he was aware of all this before the article was published. Why, then, didn't he rewrite his piece to reflect the truth? "This was a memoir of my experience." Oh, is that how this works? How postmodern of us.

My respect for Mr. Feldman--who sought public sympathy by plastering his attention-seeking psychodrama into a newspaper--and his seemingly pliable sense of propriety and reality, declines further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How lovely. The <a href="http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=14367" rel="nofollow"> NY Jewish Week now reports</a> that even Mr. Feldman has been forced to acknowledge that the Maimonides School never &#8220;cropped&#8221; him out of a photograph at all. Rather, about 16 people in total at either end of the group photo simply overflowed outside the frame. The picture was simply mis-taken, Feldman and 15 friends were at the out-of-frame end, and the personalized &#8220;exclusion&#8221; and &#8216;otherizing&#8217; that Feldman claims to have experienced from that event is in fact his own self-generated projection. The only thing that&#8217;s been airbrushed here seems to be Mr. Feldman&#8217;s self-involved pictodrama. Is Dr. Rorschach in the house?</p>
<p>Even more lovely: Feldman admits that he was aware of all this before the article was published. Why, then, didn&#8217;t he rewrite his piece to reflect the truth? &#8220;This was a memoir of my experience.&#8221; Oh, is that how this works? How postmodern of us.</p>
<p>My respect for Mr. Feldman&#8211;who sought public sympathy by plastering his attention-seeking psychodrama into a newspaper&#8211;and his seemingly pliable sense of propriety and reality, declines further.</p>
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		<title>By: Tal Benschar</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-215216</link>
		<dc:creator>Tal Benschar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-215216</guid>
		<description>"Alan Nadler, in the Forward, has the best comment about Feldman."

Sure is.  Kabel es ha emes mimi she omro.

Can we now put Feldman to rest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Alan Nadler, in the Forward, has the best comment about Feldman.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure is.  Kabel es ha emes mimi she omro.</p>
<p>Can we now put Feldman to rest?</p>
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		<title>By: HESHY BULMAN</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214730</link>
		<dc:creator>HESHY BULMAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 01:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214730</guid>
		<description>This is the third entry by Ori Pomerantz - is Cross-Currents that influential?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the third entry by Ori Pomerantz - is Cross-Currents that influential?</p>
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		<title>By: lawrence kaplan</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214723</link>
		<dc:creator>lawrence kaplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 01:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214723</guid>
		<description>I thought that the article by my former student and good friend, Alan Nadler was excellent and  right on the mark. To revert, however,  back question of Dr. Gewirtz: the one point concerning which I   disagree with Alan is his comments about YCT. Whatever  one may think about the institution, it has not broken with Orthodoxy. Nor did it attack YU at an annual dinner. The attack  was launched  by Howard Jonas, YCT's main donor in his speech at the dinner, and it caught all those present  by surprise. YCT ought to have  apologized publicy to YU, but  still the YCT:YU relationship cannot be compared to the other examples cited by Nadler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that the article by my former student and good friend, Alan Nadler was excellent and  right on the mark. To revert, however,  back question of Dr. Gewirtz: the one point concerning which I   disagree with Alan is his comments about YCT. Whatever  one may think about the institution, it has not broken with Orthodoxy. Nor did it attack YU at an annual dinner. The attack  was launched  by Howard Jonas, YCT&#8217;s main donor in his speech at the dinner, and it caught all those present  by surprise. YCT ought to have  apologized publicy to YU, but  still the YCT:YU relationship cannot be compared to the other examples cited by Nadler.</p>
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		<title>By: dr. william gewirtz</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214572</link>
		<dc:creator>dr. william gewirtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 22:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214572</guid>
		<description>Rabbi Nadler makes an insightful point and even the part about Grade added a dimension.  But he also created a new SAT question: Which one is different than the other three?

a) Spinoza - Jewish community of Amsterdam
b) Sullivan - Catholic Church
c) YCT - YU
d) Feldman - Maimonides

There may be multiple, correct answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Nadler makes an insightful point and even the part about Grade added a dimension.  But he also created a new SAT question: Which one is different than the other three?</p>
<p>a) Spinoza - Jewish community of Amsterdam<br />
b) Sullivan - Catholic Church<br />
c) YCT - YU<br />
d) Feldman - Maimonides</p>
<p>There may be multiple, correct answers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ori Pomerantz</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214474</link>
		<dc:creator>Ori Pomerantz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 21:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214474</guid>
		<description>I like what Alan Nadler wrote. There is a proud tradition of refusing to conform to the community's demands when they conflict with one's conscience and beliefs about the wishes of G-d. I think this tradition started with an Urish lad, Avram, you may have read about (better known as Abraham).

Part of this tradition, however, is to expect the community to reject you right back. The Midrash tells us that Abraham was thrown into the furnace. Spinoza was excommunicated. Noah Feldman doesn't get his notices into the alumni bulletin. Guess which of the three whines about it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like what Alan Nadler wrote. There is a proud tradition of refusing to conform to the community&#8217;s demands when they conflict with one&#8217;s conscience and beliefs about the wishes of G-d. I think this tradition started with an Urish lad, Avram, you may have read about (better known as Abraham).</p>
<p>Part of this tradition, however, is to expect the community to reject you right back. The Midrash tells us that Abraham was thrown into the furnace. Spinoza was excommunicated. Noah Feldman doesn&#8217;t get his notices into the alumni bulletin. Guess which of the three whines about it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ori Pomerantz</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214271</link>
		<dc:creator>Ori Pomerantz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214271</guid>
		<description>Maybe I have a naive newly-wed's* view of the world, but why would anybody want to be part of a community that rejects his/her spouse and is rejected by that spouse?

* six years and four children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I have a naive newly-wed&#8217;s* view of the world, but why would anybody want to be part of a community that rejects his/her spouse and is rejected by that spouse?</p>
<p>* six years and four children.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence M. Reisman</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214186</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence M. Reisman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214186</guid>
		<description>Alan Nadler, in the Forward, has the best comment about Feldman.  And this is from someone who left Orthdoxy to become rabbi in a mixed-seating synagogue:

http://www.forward.com/articles/11270/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan Nadler, in the Forward, has the best comment about Feldman.  And this is from someone who left Orthdoxy to become rabbi in a mixed-seating synagogue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.forward.com/articles/11270/" rel="nofollow">http://www.forward.com/articles/11270/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bob Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214076</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-214076</guid>
		<description>Depending on the time, place, and situation, some people may indeed have to be rejected.  Those who do the rejecting need to explain themselves as best they can, even if the rejected person won't buy it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depending on the time, place, and situation, some people may indeed have to be rejected.  Those who do the rejecting need to explain themselves as best they can, even if the rejected person won&#8217;t buy it.</p>
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		<title>By: al</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213804</link>
		<dc:creator>al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 05:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213804</guid>
		<description>This and other similar stories are legion in the federation papers. They for obvious political and financial reasons perpetuate a myth that an intermarried Jew is turned off to Judaism because he/she were shunned because of their marital choice.  The real truth is however that the person REJECTED his/her faith by outmarrying in the first place. Moreover Feldman acted like Zimri by parading his fiance and expecting valediction.  His was aprovocative act and he should have known better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This and other similar stories are legion in the federation papers. They for obvious political and financial reasons perpetuate a myth that an intermarried Jew is turned off to Judaism because he/she were shunned because of their marital choice.  The real truth is however that the person REJECTED his/her faith by outmarrying in the first place. Moreover Feldman acted like Zimri by parading his fiance and expecting valediction.  His was aprovocative act and he should have known better.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahron</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213690</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213690</guid>
		<description>Bar Kamtza may have done nothing wrong in accepting the invitation, but there is no evidence whatsoever that he was right about anything else. &lt;b&gt;All&lt;/b&gt; that we know about bar Kamtza's character is found in the famous &lt;i&gt;gemara&lt;/i&gt; in Ketubot, and consists of the following: he didn't like being excluded from parties; he felt slighted by the exclusion; he decided to retaliate against the perceived slight by slandering the entire Jewish people in public. The evidence in favor of the subject's virtue, then, is rather less than stellar.

Again sticking to the gemara in Ketubot, it is quite debatable whether the host of the party was wrong to expel bar Kamtza--particularly when we consider bar Kamtza's character as revealed by what he did next. 

Bar Kamtza may have been similarly guilty of nefarious antisocial conduct in the recent past, thereby prompting the host to quite understandably wish nothing to do with such a foul character and leaving the scholarly guests simply unable to find a redeeming quality in bar Kamtza that would justify their intervention to prevent the expulsion. (Certainly we can all think of a few foul characters whom we would never invite to a dinner party.) This angle is certainly not meant to be the 'final word' on this deceptively simple story, but I suggest that it's important to consider. 

Now moving to the current case--the narcissistic attention seeking of Mr. Feldman--any similarity or non-similarity of Feldman's underlying character to that of a historical figure in the gemara is irrelevant, and was certainly &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; the point of my comment. 

What &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; in fact the point is simply to note the similarities in reaction, from the perspective of the ostensibly "slighted" party in two quite distant eras, to a perceived social rejection, exclusion, distancing or non-involvement: public slander against the perceived 'excluders' and public swipes against the entire social body they are identified with. I think there is an essential likeness in the fundamental tenor of the two responses.

(Certainly the character from our gemara would not have lacked for arguments that appealed to his listeners' concepts of self-dignity, free choice, respect and modern values of inclusion and sameness. Indeed his successful appeal to the Roman occupiers was based on precisely that claim: &lt;i&gt;'See! I told you so! You'll never be good enough for those Jews!'&lt;/i&gt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bar Kamtza may have done nothing wrong in accepting the invitation, but there is no evidence whatsoever that he was right about anything else. <b>All</b> that we know about bar Kamtza&#8217;s character is found in the famous <i>gemara</i> in Ketubot, and consists of the following: he didn&#8217;t like being excluded from parties; he felt slighted by the exclusion; he decided to retaliate against the perceived slight by slandering the entire Jewish people in public. The evidence in favor of the subject&#8217;s virtue, then, is rather less than stellar.</p>
<p>Again sticking to the gemara in Ketubot, it is quite debatable whether the host of the party was wrong to expel bar Kamtza&#8211;particularly when we consider bar Kamtza&#8217;s character as revealed by what he did next. </p>
<p>Bar Kamtza may have been similarly guilty of nefarious antisocial conduct in the recent past, thereby prompting the host to quite understandably wish nothing to do with such a foul character and leaving the scholarly guests simply unable to find a redeeming quality in bar Kamtza that would justify their intervention to prevent the expulsion. (Certainly we can all think of a few foul characters whom we would never invite to a dinner party.) This angle is certainly not meant to be the &#8216;final word&#8217; on this deceptively simple story, but I suggest that it&#8217;s important to consider. </p>
<p>Now moving to the current case&#8211;the narcissistic attention seeking of Mr. Feldman&#8211;any similarity or non-similarity of Feldman&#8217;s underlying character to that of a historical figure in the gemara is irrelevant, and was certainly <b>not</b> the point of my comment. </p>
<p>What <b>is</b> in fact the point is simply to note the similarities in reaction, from the perspective of the ostensibly &#8220;slighted&#8221; party in two quite distant eras, to a perceived social rejection, exclusion, distancing or non-involvement: public slander against the perceived &#8216;excluders&#8217; and public swipes against the entire social body they are identified with. I think there is an essential likeness in the fundamental tenor of the two responses.</p>
<p>(Certainly the character from our gemara would not have lacked for arguments that appealed to his listeners&#8217; concepts of self-dignity, free choice, respect and modern values of inclusion and sameness. Indeed his successful appeal to the Roman occupiers was based on precisely that claim: <i>&#8216;See! I told you so! You&#8217;ll never be good enough for those Jews!&#8217;</i>)</p>
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		<title>By: Baruch Horowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213682</link>
		<dc:creator>Baruch Horowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213682</guid>
		<description>"I assume one can’t be Orthodox and intermarried, but how common is it for the children of Orthodox Jews to intermarry?"

I assume it's miniscule even amongst those "off the derech".   Internal Orthodox reflection in wake of Noah Feldman's article would be only indirect for intermarriage, in that one can understand assimilation in Jewish society at large. The internal reflection would be more directly relevant to Orthodoxy, however,  for the other issues discussed.

For example, although I think  much of the  article was unfair and  irresponsible even from a non-Orthodox perspective (e.g.,  the Baruch Goldstein issue),  I found it both  poignant  and revealing of  a way of thinking  when   Feldman  writes, " I have tried in my own imperfect way to live up to values that the school taught me, expressing my respect and love for the wisdom of the tradition... as a result, I have not felt myself to have rejected my upbringing, even when some others imagine me to have done so by virtue of my marriage". 

I would also add that in a recent  series of  articles in the Jewish Action, and most recently, in Steve Savitsky's OU Radio interview titled "Orthodox Judaism 2017", the question was brought up of practical  ways in which Orthodoxy can unite on a public level. Apparently, Noah  Feldman did Orthodoxy a favor in forcing  a common  ground, in the sense that nearly  every article or view written or quoted from an Orthodox perspective felt a need to respond to  Feldman's article(including a  Rabbi associated with the  Left of Orthodoxy, as  quoted in the Jewish Week editorial).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I assume one can’t be Orthodox and intermarried, but how common is it for the children of Orthodox Jews to intermarry?&#8221;</p>
<p>I assume it&#8217;s miniscule even amongst those &#8220;off the derech&#8221;.   Internal Orthodox reflection in wake of Noah Feldman&#8217;s article would be only indirect for intermarriage, in that one can understand assimilation in Jewish society at large. The internal reflection would be more directly relevant to Orthodoxy, however,  for the other issues discussed.</p>
<p>For example, although I think  much of the  article was unfair and  irresponsible even from a non-Orthodox perspective (e.g.,  the Baruch Goldstein issue),  I found it both  poignant  and revealing of  a way of thinking  when   Feldman  writes, &#8221; I have tried in my own imperfect way to live up to values that the school taught me, expressing my respect and love for the wisdom of the tradition&#8230; as a result, I have not felt myself to have rejected my upbringing, even when some others imagine me to have done so by virtue of my marriage&#8221;. </p>
<p>I would also add that in a recent  series of  articles in the Jewish Action, and most recently, in Steve Savitsky&#8217;s OU Radio interview titled &#8220;Orthodox Judaism 2017&#8243;, the question was brought up of practical  ways in which Orthodoxy can unite on a public level. Apparently, Noah  Feldman did Orthodoxy a favor in forcing  a common  ground, in the sense that nearly  every article or view written or quoted from an Orthodox perspective felt a need to respond to  Feldman&#8217;s article(including a  Rabbi associated with the  Left of Orthodoxy, as  quoted in the Jewish Week editorial).</p>
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		<title>By: a k</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213410</link>
		<dc:creator>a k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213410</guid>
		<description>RE: Comment by Ahron — July 31, 2007 @ 2:14 pm 
"Somebody gets tossed out of a party and decides to swipe back at the host and his friends…. I think we’ve recently heard this old story somewhere."

If you are making a light joke, ok. But if you are making a serious comparison, I would respectfully ask you to reread the gemara. I think that you are wrong on both ends of the account.
1) Bar Kamzta did nothing wrong; he accepted an invitation from his arch enemy and came to the party.
2) He was publicly humiliated after trying to reason with the host.

In 'our' case,
1)Mr. Feldman made a choice to act in a way that he knew was unacceptable to normative orthodox Judaism 
2)No one publicly humiliated him; they just didn't accept that which they found unacceptable.

Kol Tuv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Comment by Ahron — July 31, 2007 @ 2:14 pm<br />
&#8220;Somebody gets tossed out of a party and decides to swipe back at the host and his friends…. I think we’ve recently heard this old story somewhere.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you are making a light joke, ok. But if you are making a serious comparison, I would respectfully ask you to reread the gemara. I think that you are wrong on both ends of the account.<br />
1) Bar Kamzta did nothing wrong; he accepted an invitation from his arch enemy and came to the party.<br />
2) He was publicly humiliated after trying to reason with the host.</p>
<p>In &#8216;our&#8217; case,<br />
1)Mr. Feldman made a choice to act in a way that he knew was unacceptable to normative orthodox Judaism<br />
2)No one publicly humiliated him; they just didn&#8217;t accept that which they found unacceptable.</p>
<p>Kol Tuv</p>
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		<title>By: HESHY BULMAN</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213379</link>
		<dc:creator>HESHY BULMAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213379</guid>
		<description>Rabbi Shafran,
Your article deserved better than most of the responses thus far - most bone-headed and agenda-driven themselves. The article was well considered, informed, insightful and in precise accord with what just about any Adam Godol throughout Jewish History would have written in regards to this issue, perhaps first and foremost Ezra HaSofer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Shafran,<br />
Your article deserved better than most of the responses thus far - most bone-headed and agenda-driven themselves. The article was well considered, informed, insightful and in precise accord with what just about any Adam Godol throughout Jewish History would have written in regards to this issue, perhaps first and foremost Ezra HaSofer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahron</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213310</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213310</guid>
		<description>&#62;&lt;i&gt;"What he really resents is that his erstwhile school, along with some of his mentors and friends, spurn him for his decision to marry outside his faith."&lt;/i&gt;

Somebody gets tossed out of a party and decides to swipe back at the host and his friends.... I think we've recently heard this old story somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;<i>&#8220;What he really resents is that his erstwhile school, along with some of his mentors and friends, spurn him for his decision to marry outside his faith.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Somebody gets tossed out of a party and decides to swipe back at the host and his friends&#8230;. I think we&#8217;ve recently heard this old story somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Ari</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213155</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213155</guid>
		<description>Dr. G. -- Good analysis of why this has hit a nerve.  Feldman felt betrayed by the Modern Orthodoxy which he assumed would accommodate his  behavior.  And then, in a fit of controlled pique, he says that he never liked Modern Orthodoxy anyway because it is intellectually dishonest.  And he is going to tell everyone all about Modern Orthodoxy's "dark secrets."  Not dissimilar to an angry suppose who says, "I never much liked you anyway. And I'm going to tell all your friends just how rotten you are.  They think you're such a nice guy.  Boy, won't they be surprised.  And by the way, I've been cataloguing your foibles ever since we got married."  I do feel compassion for him, though, because he was engaged enough to be bothered by the community's reaction, and by some who will hate both the sinner and the sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. G. &#8212; Good analysis of why this has hit a nerve.  Feldman felt betrayed by the Modern Orthodoxy which he assumed would accommodate his  behavior.  And then, in a fit of controlled pique, he says that he never liked Modern Orthodoxy anyway because it is intellectually dishonest.  And he is going to tell everyone all about Modern Orthodoxy&#8217;s &#8220;dark secrets.&#8221;  Not dissimilar to an angry suppose who says, &#8220;I never much liked you anyway. And I&#8217;m going to tell all your friends just how rotten you are.  They think you&#8217;re such a nice guy.  Boy, won&#8217;t they be surprised.  And by the way, I&#8217;ve been cataloguing your foibles ever since we got married.&#8221;  I do feel compassion for him, though, because he was engaged enough to be bothered by the community&#8217;s reaction, and by some who will hate both the sinner and the sin.</p>
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		<title>By: Ori Pomerantz</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213078</link>
		<dc:creator>Ori Pomerantz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213078</guid>
		<description>Baruch Horowitz, you're right - it's a good discussion topic. BTW, how common is intermarriage in the Orthodox community? I assume one can't be Orthodox and intermarried, but how common is it for the children of Orthodox Jews to intermarry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baruch Horowitz, you&#8217;re right - it&#8217;s a good discussion topic. BTW, how common is intermarriage in the Orthodox community? I assume one can&#8217;t be Orthodox and intermarried, but how common is it for the children of Orthodox Jews to intermarry?</p>
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		<title>By: Loberstein</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213077</link>
		<dc:creator>Loberstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213077</guid>
		<description>:At the same time, though, there is simply no way – not in the real world – to warmly welcome intermarrieds without welcoming intermarriage. "
This is the problem that Reform and now Conservative synagogues are grappling with. If they speak out against intermarriage, they alienate a lot of potential dues payers . Both groups ,sadly, have caved in.
"Rabbi, you have to remember that a synagogue is a business" is a statement often told to clergy. If Reform did not accept patrilinial descent and if Conservative did not, in  fact, accept any conversion or even lack of a conversion in many cases, it would close down the Temple. So, you have to have your priorities and keeping your business open and insuring your salary are priorities, otherwise the rabbi would be fired and the next one would look the other way. Feldman, however, has enough education to want recognition by the orthodox. This is the same as the feminists who insist on orthodox feminism, why don't they join the non orthodox movemenets which will welcome all of their innovations? Because in their heart they still believe that G-d is orthodox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>:At the same time, though, there is simply no way – not in the real world – to warmly welcome intermarrieds without welcoming intermarriage. &#8221;<br />
This is the problem that Reform and now Conservative synagogues are grappling with. If they speak out against intermarriage, they alienate a lot of potential dues payers . Both groups ,sadly, have caved in.<br />
&#8220;Rabbi, you have to remember that a synagogue is a business&#8221; is a statement often told to clergy. If Reform did not accept patrilinial descent and if Conservative did not, in  fact, accept any conversion or even lack of a conversion in many cases, it would close down the Temple. So, you have to have your priorities and keeping your business open and insuring your salary are priorities, otherwise the rabbi would be fired and the next one would look the other way. Feldman, however, has enough education to want recognition by the orthodox. This is the same as the feminists who insist on orthodox feminism, why don&#8217;t they join the non orthodox movemenets which will welcome all of their innovations? Because in their heart they still believe that G-d is orthodox.</p>
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		<title>By: Garnel Ironheart</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213062</link>
		<dc:creator>Garnel Ironheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/07/30/invitation-to-intermarriage/#comment-213062</guid>
		<description>888... 889... 900 seconds.  Okay everyone, Feldman's 15 minutes of fame are now officially up.  Move along.  Nothing new here anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>888&#8230; 889&#8230; 900 seconds.  Okay everyone, Feldman&#8217;s 15 minutes of fame are now officially up.  Move along.  Nothing new here anymore.</p>
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