Indeed the problems exist. But not every problem can be easily solved. Here, radically redefining conversion might seem to “solve” the challenge facing Israel, but it would be just as unconscionable from a halacha-respecting perspective as would be, say, to most of us, deporting from Israel all non-Jewish immigrants – another neat “solution.”

What may seem to be an easy solution is often the seed of tragedy. As the Talmud teaches: “the ‘construction’ of youths [the insufficiently wise] can in fact be ‘destruction.’” And, as the Talmud continues, what might seem “destructive” on the part of “elders” [i.e. the wise] can in the end be truly constructive.

JR:

I think we should let the rabbis speak for themselves, and that they should be specific. Until they do, though, since their clearly expressed goal is to effect great social change in Israel with the absorption of a large number of immigrant non-Jews, and since all reports from Israel are that the vast majority of those immigrants have no interest in observance (i.e. kabbalat hamitzvot), it would certainly seem that the rabbis at issue have more than simply presenting a friendlier “welcoming” face in mind.

I fully realize that you were referring, previously, to the Rabbanut-RCA rift, and again inform you that that controversy was simply not a subject of my essay; I lack the knowledge of its particulars that would enable me to address it.

Your final comment puzzles me. If you mean that kabbalat hamitzvot is indeed not insisted upon by many seemingly reliable batei din, then my cry of anguish at attempts to further erode halachic conversion is all the more intensified.

I am myself very familiar with several geirim (and have even written a book about one: “Migrant Soul” – Targum/Feldheim). All of them were mekabel mitzvot entirely, and their batei din would not have proceeded without that.

The 2 Rabbis have NOT called for a mass conversion, they have simply called for being more open and welcoming to people who are actually interested in converting, and then possibly reaching out to those who are not yet interested.

As for refuisng to recognize conversions, I am talking about the Rabbinate-RCA rift, and it’s impact on thousands of people whose Kabbalat mitzvot should not be assumed to have been insencere, nor should even be questioned. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1178020746144

Finally, if you think that your definition of kabalat mitzvot is actually what many of these Batei dinim are adhering to, then you need to pay a visit to the beit din and speak to some converts and potential converts. I am married to one and have many, many friends whove gone through geirus with various Batei Dinim.

What do you propose to address these social issues? Surely they exist.

Reality check: Two rabbis have called for what amounts to mass conversion of non-Jewish immigrants to Israel, to help swell the “Jewish” population and avoid social problems. They have not detailed what new standards they are promoting but since the vast majority of Israel’s non-Jewish immigrant population, by all account, has no interest or intent to in any way undertake the yoke of mitzvos, it is clear that the rabbis have in mind some sort of “lessening” or elimination of the requirement of kabbolas mitzvos, the central element of halachic conversion.

At no point did I address the issue of “retroactively refus[ing] to recognize conversion[s].” In cases where there is clear evidence that a conversion was not performed halachically, it is indeed invalid. But the issue here is not the past but the future – i.e. whether the Rabbanut should change the accepted halachic standard.

As to the Rambam, he (echoing the Gemara, of course) is referring to what the potential ger has to be told; the neophyte need not be aware of even the bulk of mitzvos for the conversion to be, at least, post facto, valid. The kabbalas hamitzvos of what he does know, however, (and of future mitzvos he will come to learn about) has to be a true one, not the mere mouthing of words that the speaker has no intention of honoring. That is my definition of kabbalas hamitzvos and it is the definition put forth by every posek of whom I am aware.

People have been asking my opinion about all that is going on and many times they are surprised to hear what I have to say-many times they seem to be expecting (or wanting) me to condone or defend those who have done an “Orthodox” conversion yet clearly do not lead Torah-observant lifestyles. There are so many “labels” for all the levels/types of Jewish observance nowadays it’s almost (but not truly) comedic.
Who do we think we are fooling?
If people are doing “Orthodox” conversions for any other reason than that they absolutely intend to lead completely Torah-observant (accepting the Oral Law, too, which is an issue for many) and the Rabbis overseeing the conversions are aware then these conversions should not be allowed to go through in the first place. So many that I have seen have simply been done as “damage control”-for example, a Jewish man falls in love with a gentile woman and they want to get married. She has no intention of living a Torah-observant lifestyle but they both want to please the family, have the Jewish indentity for their children and generally appease his/her conscience. So many times the Jewish partner doesn’t even lead an Observant lifestyle in the first place!
Rabbis may make the call in this type of situation that it’s more of a humanitarian choice to just let it (the conversion) go through. But who do they (the Rabbis) think THEY are fooling? Of course, I can understand the humanitarian aspect of such Rabbinical decisions but it still doesn’t hide the truth of what they are doing. There is a lot of pressure on the Rabbonim to be ‘yes men’-unfortunately, that is not what being a leader/teacher is all about. Choices are hard but they are choices.
Will G-d be mocked?

Then there is the situation where a convert appears to be sincere but post-conversion lapses in his/her commitment to the mitzvot and ends up leading a mostly secular lifestyle. Often, this is justified and supported by the influence of other non-observant Jews. I have found that many times people EXPECT this of me and they are very offended when I hold my ground about my observance standards. I realize they probably see this as a negative judgement from me as they have experienced what I call “the wall”-when Observant Jews put a wall up between themselves and the Jews who are not leading approved lifestyles. This is evidenced by the mass resentment and various ‘labeling’ within the Tribe and is (I believe) sadly yet another example of we are our own worst enemies, as Jews and humans, in general. This “us and them” mentality is so destructive-something based in ignorance and fear. Ignorance and fear breed hate. Yikes.
I am very aware that I walk a fine line associating with Jews of all backgrounds and observance levels-it does create problems. But where is the love? Where is this thing called ‘Yiddiskeit’? This is why I teach my son to never knowingly embarrass someone who is either ignorant of or simply not committed to a Torah-observant lifestyle. I tell him to pray that they will one day see the beauty of such a life. I tell him they are not “Bad Jews”. But at the same time he understands we cannot always become more “socially intimate” with our friends who do not keep Shabbat, don’t keep Kosher or simply misbehave!
But I refuse to write off any Jew.

This is the part where I feel so blessed to have had the privilege of being able to choose to be a Jew. Although (as cheesy as it may sound!) I do believe that my soul has always been Jewish, that it is G-d’s Design that I should have been put on such a journey…I see so many self-hating Jews that it breaks my heart but I understand:
It’s not a long stretch to resenting something you feel is restrictive-the old ‘grass is greener on the other side’ thing. This is again where I feel so humbled-I have been to the other side. Some of it WAS great, exciting and had it’s perceived benefits. But my soul was not at home there. Bizarrely, I discovered Judaism and have never looked back. When you have had your eyes opened you CAN choose to ignore what you’ve seen but there is ultimately no delusion that we can effect which could ever hide the truth. We cannot hide from G-d. We cannot hide from our destinies, despite our own free-will, because we as individuals are part of G-d’s Greater Plan. And rememeber, one doesn’t need to be a Jew to be righteous-a point often forgotten.
We are responsible and accountable not just for ourselves but for each other. This is one of the reasons why on Yom Kippur (and while davening within a minyan or congregation during other times) we do what we do. We cannot go to G-d for our transgressions against each other. This makes our relationships and dealings within the Tribe (and with Gentiles) so very important. Quite frankly, we don’t have the right not to ‘do right by’ our fellow human beings.
Sometimes this requires tough love, though. And tough love most often demands submitting to the truth. And the truth is G-d DESIGNED that we as Jews should keep the Mitzvot.
All problems we suffer through as human beings (and especially as Jews) are due to our reluctance to really submit to G-d. Our own free will-our egos-are the source of this problem, all problems. G-d gave us this “freedom” because He wants us to CHOOSE His path. And whenever we do choose it, life takes on so much more meaning, beauty and fulfillment. It’s an ironic trick of the ‘dark side’ (!) that we perceive losing our ego-fed right to choose as a threat to our ultimate happiness.

What does this all have to do with sincere Orthodox conversions?
Why am I not bitter at my current circumstances-that I cannot get on with my (Jewish) life-that I cannot even think of finding a partner or having another child at this time? That I have been in this painful limbo for years now?
Why am I not upset at the unfairness of being lumped in with non-sincere potential converts?
Why am I not angry at all the Jewish politics going on concerning conversions?

It strikes me as sad that the thought crossed my mind that going through a conversion the way I have witnessed it (every one is different) could very easily lead someone to become the biggest anti-semite ever! Thanks only to H’ that I have been able to survive some of the things I have been through during my conversion process. Ultimately, it has made my convictions stronger and has only provided evidence (for myself, anyway) that seeking to live by the Torah AND with the right intentions is the only successful way to be a Jew. It is beautiful and right and there is only much to be gained. It also breaks my heart to see the Tribe hurting so-which fills my heart with love for the humanity (at its worst or best) and makes me realize how important it is that we love each other. Our lives are NOT about US. This gives me so much purpose as many times (as morbid as this may sound) just living life for my sake just hasn’t seemed like enough incentive to keep going. Being a single mom is humbling, extremely hard but gives me back much more than what it costs me. Being a Jew is not always ‘easy’ but the spiritual and emotional benefits far outweigh any hardship. I simply don’t have a life outside being a Jew. One cannot ignore the pull of one’s soul. That would entail a far bigger death than losing one’s physical life. Besides, I have no life if H’ doesn’t design it that way. We are not for ourselves.

So, I think that there should be some heavy-duty closet cleaning within the Tribe concerning conversions. If people want to do Orthodox conversions (the definition of which by my understanding means keeping the Miztvot and accepting Torah and Rabbinical Law) then there should be consistency within the process. Unfortunately, it seems unrealistic that the ‘politics’ within the Tribe will ever truly end being the ruling force concerning conversions. There is so much infighting going on and much of it has to do with ego.
Some people are putting themselves (and their decision-making previleges) above G-d and He will not tolerate it eventually. Even this is part of His Plan. We think we are in charge but ultimately G-d will have His Way.

Only H’ knows who is sincere and who is not. But in the meantime there are many people and families who are suffering because of this situation.
The Tribe is suffering. How can we expect to fix the world if we cannot look ourselves in the mirror and see the true reality of the damage that is being done by ignoring what many of us know we are supposed to be doing? There needs to be peace in our tents before we can expect peace in the world. We truly are our own worst enemy.

The Rabbis overseeing conversions have a huge ethical responsibility (I don’t envy them especially considering the current volatile political scene) and require our prayers-that they be given discernment, wisdom and love. Of course, we have the Torah to give us these tools but whether we choose to use them is another issue.
Torah scholarship without the right intention for learning can be a recipe for disaster, especially when ego is involved.

We need to pray sincerely for our leaders and pray for each other despite our differences. We need to also ask H’ for mercy.
We’ve lost our focus, much as a marriage can, and the problem will not go away. Thankfully, our Marriage Partner, G-d, is determined in His Mercy and wants only to bring our marriage back on track. Sometimes this requires going through some very painful terraine.

Just because we have allowed some “non-kosher” conversions to happen doesn’t mean we should continue to. By doing so, we are also continuing to respect the Torah and thus disrespecting G-d. We are causing grave danger to the Tribe by doing so.

Some thoughts:
-Once a person converts sincerely, they are always a Jew despite choosing
to fall off the path of Torah post-conversion. The majority of modern Jews are NOT completely observant-throughout Jewish history Jews have waivered from Observance-does this cancel their Jewish status?
-Were the Jews fully cognizant of all the Mitzvot (and understanding completely of how exactly they should be kept) when they accepted the ‘contract’ at Mt. Sinai?
-Does a sincere convert truly require the ‘certification’ of a Beis Din in order to become a Jew? By Torah Law or Rabbinical Law? It’s no secret that the conversion process has changed drastically.
-Is it not ironic that there are some sincere potential converts who are told that they are required to change their lifestyle (in the interim period before mikveh) and ‘prove’ their sincerity but at the same time are prevented from being able to actually do so! For example, not being accepted into Jewish schools, social groups, holiday functions, etc.. How is one to ‘learn by doing’ when these barriers are being put up? It’s one thing to test someone’s committment/sincerity but it’s cruel to ignore their human need for support and tolerance.

There are many committed and sincere converts who are caught up in this mess. We are waiting patiently and trying to see this whole situation through eyes of love for the Tribe. We understand that there are tough calls sometimes and we pray for the Rabbis. We pray for healing and peace within the Tribe-the world depends on it.
Healing requires going through some pain, sometimes a lot of pain.
Peace only comes from submitting to who you really are and what you are supposed to do. Jews are supposed to cling to the Torah. Sincere converts were there at Sinai, too. For those of us who are waiting to be reunited with the Tribe this whole situation is extremely painful.

Please pray for us.

Baruch-is the shiur that you posted a link available as a PDF download also?

Respectfully yours,

Baruch

What do you think would be preferable (or the lesser evil)? The fact is that Israel has a large formerly Russian population, and the majority of Chiloni Jews consider them part of the nation.

1. Relaxing the geirut standard so that former Russians who are Chilonim can be Jews where the state of Israel forces people to go to their religious authorities (IIRC weddings, divorces, and funerals)?

2. Drop the mandate of the religious authorities on weddings, divorces, and funerals? That way Jewish Chilonim will be able to marry former Russians, etc.

In the Galut, Jews who don’t care about Mitzvot start their own denominations or assimilate (or both, as people here stated so many times). In Israel that doesn’t happen - but the fact of non observance remains.

I think the point here is entirely mixed. Having read RAbbi Angel’s books I can attest that he certainly requires kabbalat mitzvot for every convert. The definition of kabbalat mitzvot is what the debate is about. If I came to a Satmar Beit din and stated that I accept Kashrut, Shabbat, Taharat HaMischpacha, and all the mitzvot and my intention is to make aliyah, serve in the IDF and then work as a physician full time in a hospital, I am doubtful as to whether I would be converted. If I came to a beit din in Lakewood and stated that I would keep my computer and TV, what do you honestly think their answer would be? You and I know that the issue here is not acceptance of mitzvot, but rather the ideology governing every aspect of one’s life (clothes, work, etc.). And as Rabbi Angel states, the Rishonim make no mention of what these minutia of life are required for conversion. Rambam states that once a potential convert replies “I am not worthy”, after being warned of the danger of being Jewish, he is to be accepted IMMEDIATELY. You teach him a few major and minor commandments and the mikvah and mila. The requirement that some of these batei dinim making on the convert to live in a haredi neighborhood, dress in 18th century black clothes, and eat only their hescher is nowhere to be found. And to top it off they are trying to disqualify, post facto, conversions performed by American Rabbonim who do not subscribe to these stringencies.
The Poskim everyone keeps quoting are indeed 20th century HAredi poskim who agree with your own views. If you want to argue that the views of these poskim ARE the views of the rishonim, please bring proof. No one has quoted any so far. The RAmbam’s quote is certainly clear

Perhaps “different” but “lowered” is a value judgment. Is one who respects tradition and uses his learned father’s kiddush cup “lower” than one who insists on the shiurim of the Noda BeYehuda? Do you seriously think that Rabbi Angel wants theses large numbers converted without regard for halacha?

Rabbi Shafran further clarified: “The rabbis at issue have not, to my knowledge, clearly spelled out what they would like to see as the standard for accepting the mitzvos.”

Halacha by defintion means the traditions by which we “walk” not the texts that we promulgate. Not everything, especially those things are contextual and require judgement, lends itself to precise, public formulation.

Should the crisis that at least some believe Israel faces, impact how a competent Posek weighs a particular issue? Perhaps those sensitivities are being questioned. Beyond all the less than helpful rhetoric, this may be the nub of the issue.

This article has too much code in it for me. What I take from it is that the author does not like the stance of various rabbonim and so he seeks to attack their orthodoxy and their learning. I would take the points more seriously if that is what he actually said. A disappointment.

R. Angel (and Prof. Ish Shalom) understand the point well — they each wrote articles claiming that their view was the consensus of halakha and that the “charedim” who have taken over the rabbinate are implementing an unusually stringent position. (I am going to ignore the ad hominems, such as labelling the other opinion “extreme,” etc.) The posters here are perfectly within their rights to point out that these views are at best marginal and most likely are outside the consensus of Rishonim and Acharonim.

IMO, the bottom line is this. I know of no view in Shas and Poskim that kabbalas ol mitzvos is not an indispensible part of geirus, if not its very essence. In the modern sociological situation in which we find ourselves, one has to have an Alice-in-Wonderland approach to believe that anyone who does not intend to become “Orthodox” is in fact fulfilling kabbalas ol mitzvos. It’s not a matter of a “lifestyle” as some writers have characterized it, it’s a matter of basic deoraysas like Shabbos, Kashrus and, for those married, taharas ha Mishpacha.

*Choosing to Be Jewish: The Orthodox Road to Conversion* (Ktav, 2005).

Wouldn’t it be a better approach to engage Rabbi Angel in a detailed halachic debate rather than to engage in the kind of speculation here as to what the majority of poskim may or may not have held? I suggest that Cross Currents invite Rabbis Angel and Shafran to engage in a public exchange in this venue regarding this issue. As two important leaders of the Orthodox community in America they deserve nothing less from us!

(I should add that I have not read Rabbi Angel’s book, but as a result of this essay I plan to order it shortly.)

First, the facts of the matter. The issue of my essay was not the RCA or the issue of rabbinic independence in deciding questions of halacha. I know nothing about the Israeli Rabbanut’s feelings or concerns about the RCA at any point, and have no interest in the topic. My focus was limited to a particular onslaught on the Rabbanut (an institution I have no relationship to and no inherent reason to automatically defend), by two Orthodox rabbis (neither of whom is Rabbi Ish-Shalom) who assert that the large number of non-Jews in Israel from the FSU who would like to be considered Jewish demands that standards for conversion regarding kabbalas hamitzvos be lowered.

If anyone is making demands on anyone to “accept my own view,” in the matter, it would seem it is the two rabbis at issue. The Rabbanut certainly has every right to establish the standards it considers normative, and has done precisely that. To heap calumny upon the Rabbanut because of its convictions is simply wrong. If Rabbi A. wishes to invoke some different standard for his congregants, that is his business (and those of us who feel he is misguided will simply have to take that into account when, say, considering a shidduch with a convert from his congregation). But when he attacks others for not lowering their own standards – especially an institution whose decisions have impact on the largest Jewish community in the world – I think that bears addressing and clarification.

The rabbis at issue have not, to my knowledge, clearly spelled out what they would like to see as the standard for accepting the mitzvos. But considering the population they want to convert (much of which, by all accounts is not interested in shouldering the mitzvos) it would seem clear that they are endorsing the sufficiency of something less than a full-hearted acceptance of the Torah’s commandments. That there are already many “converts” around who may not have met that standard certainly does not absolve the Rabbanut of hewing to what it believes to be the normative standard in the matter.

For what it is worth (and I hope it is much, considering his stature as a posek), Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, in the first chelek of Yoreh Deah in Igros Moshe, writes the following:

“… it is obvious and clear that [a non-Jew who did not accept the mitzvos] is not a ger at all, even after the fact [of his conversion ceremony]… because kabbalas hamitzvos for a ger is essential [me’akev]… and even if he pronounces that he is accepting the mitzvos, if it is clear to us [anan sa’adi] that he is not in truth accepting them, it is nothing.”

He goes on to write there: “I altogether do not understand the reasoning of the rabbonim who are mistaken in this. Even according to [their mistaken notion], what gain are they bringing to Klal Yisrael by accepting converts like these? It is certainly not pleasing to Hashem or to the Jewish people that such converts should become mixed into Yisrael. As to the halacha, it is clear that they are not converts at all.”

I am not familiar with what Rabbi Uziel’s opinion actually is, and whether individuals can rely on whatever he said on the conversion issue in the event that it goes against other poskim. But as a general point, there is a concept of hiearchy and weight in psak, and communities have acknowledged poskim. Poskim themselves would have to weigh in on the weight to give to Rabbi Uziel’s opinion(whatever it is exactly).

In general, there can be diversity in halacha and minhagim because of different poskim’s rulings, as opposed to bringing every question on even minor issues to a single poseik hador, provided that such diversity itself come from poskim. Of course, a theoretical legitimate machalokes haposkim that would lead to different standards in personal status issues such as geirus or mamzerus could be problematic in terms of communal unity, as opposed to disagreement on procedures in kashrus or the beracha on a type of food, so perhaps that’s a reason to adopt a single standard on conversion, even if there were theoretically a legitimate dispute.

On the general subject of hierachy in halachic rulings, Rabbi Kenneth Auman has a letter in the Jewish Week(7/6/07):

“…The truth, of course, as our centuries of rabbinic responsa indicate, is that each generation has always had its acknowledged religious greats. Rabbis were never afraid to ask questions and abide by the rulings of greater authorities. The fact that we today do not have a Sanhedrin composed of our greatest sages is an unfortunate result of our diaspora existence, not an ideal…”

I learnt the sugyos in Gemoroh, Rishonim and Achronim on the subject of Gerut. The position of Rav Uzziel is inconsistent with what is seen in the sources. Kbbalat Hamitzvot is a very strong factor even bedieved in the sources. The reinterpretation of Rav uzziel is not pashtus of what is written in the sources.

WE don’t have a Sanhedrin but there are still issues that klal yisroel accepts upon themselves to follow either a majority of poskim or certain posskim of great caliber, at least in pure halachik issues especially on very global issues (like gerut).

I would suggest that the interested reader begin with the entry on Gerus in the Encyclopedia Talmudis, go thru as many of the sources there cited and then simply think to oneself whether the view of R Uzziel ZTL is consistent with the view of Rov Rishonim and Poskim.

Steve: You know that is not how the halachik system operates-we don’t have a Sanhedrin and everyone can rely on his own Rebbe. Remember that R. Chaim Brisker refused to join Rabbi Shafran’s organization-not because he didn’t approve of the Agudah’s anti-Zionism- Rav Chaim was a great anti-Zionist; but rather becasue of the concept of a Moetzet-that one group of Rabbonim have no authority to tell others what to do.
R. Angel as a Sefardi is certainly following procedure if he follows Rav Uzziel rather than Rav Moshe.

I’m uneasy when a rabbi goes against most active high-level poskim—possibly nearly all—dealing with a halachic topic of interest.

Yes, if the acceptance was sincere then non observance does not invalidate gerus.But when there is no acceptance there is no gerus. Verbal declarations when it is clear the fellow never intends to observe is not considered a good Kabblat Mitzvot. Look at Achiezer chelek 3 teshuva 26. One of the ways to measure sincerity is the lack of any observance right after gerut.