Comments on: What Is Wrong With This Picture?

By: Natan Pandolfi

Natan Pandolfi — Thu, 24 May 2007 17:50:16 +0000

Beemza…….
I think that the way the issue should be addressed is in terms of what is written in the Brit Chadasha itself. When this book was written Jerusalem was in the hands of the Romans, the Temple was defiled……In the words of Z’kharyah ha Cohen (not the Rambam) this is what Moshiach was expected to deliver in order to be accepted as such…..
“Praised be Adon-i, the G-d of Israel,
because he has visited and made a ransom to liberate his people
by raising up for us a mighty Deliverer
who is a descendant of his servant David.
It is just as he has spoken
through the mouth of the prophets from the very beginning -
that we should be delivered from our enemies
and from the power of all who hate us.
This has happened so that he might show
the mercy promised to our fathers -
that he would remember his holy covenant,
the oath he swore before Avraham avinu
to grant us that we, freed from our enemies,
would serve Him without fear,
in holiness and righteousness
before Him all our days.”
(Luke 1:68-76)
…Consider this - these people should be gently asked, like Abraham Avinu would have gentky asked… - has Yeshua met these standards? has he delivered what was required of him? What happened to the Jewish people for the next two thousand years? Have the Jewish people been delivered from their enemies and from the power of all who hate them? Have the Jewish people been freed from their enemies and can they now serve Him all their days? The answer is obviously: NO! He has NOT even met the standards set by the “evangelists” themselves, let alone the 300 or so prophecies that are always quoted…. Does’t this mean that we have to harass, intimidate, persecute, his Jewish followers and their children? This is revolting!! Should we curse them and wipe them off the land, as I have seen written in some of the blogs by some meshuga!!!What a shame!!!!There is much worse in our society at the moment to be taken care of! Believe me…..!!

By: Natan Pandolfi

Natan Pandolfi — Wed, 23 May 2007 23:18:03 +0000

What we see is the result of the problem being still addressed the way the Gur do in the documentary, with missionary zeal: shouting, screaming, shunning, denying, ponting the finger, humiliating instead of presenting it from a correct historical perspective, presenting the good and the bad. As you rightly point out, you are dealing with very educated people. In short let’s leave behind denominational biases, his caricature as an apostate, a magician and an enemy of the people of Israel. In fact he died so that t”we should be delivered from our enemies (the Romans)and from the power of all who hate us…so that…freed from our enemies,would serve Him without fear,in holiness and righteousness before Him all our days….
I am afraid Rivka Frei will never be back into the fold. Maybe it is also time to start asking kids at the table: mi rotze leitpalel?…

By: Shella Sadovnik

Shella Sadovnik — Sun, 20 May 2007 04:52:31 +0000

In response to Mr. Joel Rosenbaum, I would only like to point out that even if the belief in Jesus should not be painful to the rest of us (even though technically it is ANTI-JEWISH because it is a belief in IDOLATRY), the two obvious questions are:
1. Would they still believe in Jesus if they had recieved a deep, and nurturing understanding of Judaism? My guess, most definately not.
2. What will their children believe in? The parents may be able to hold the conflicting beliefs together somehow, but their children will have NOTHING Jewish to relate to (because the parents have not built a foundation for them). What is sad about the video is not so much that they believe in Jesus, but that they DON’T believe in HaShem.

By: Ori Pomerantz

Ori Pomerantz — Sun, 20 May 2007 02:51:13 +0000

Looking at the spectrum of possible beliefs about Jesus, at point does belief in Jesus become a sin for a Jew? For a Ben Noach?

Note to all the Christians reading this: I am asking a question about Jewish Halacha, which prescribes a few beliefs and proscribes others. Please do not be offended by characterizing Christian beliefs as sinful - I am sure that according to Christian theologians the Jewish rejection of Jesus is equally sinful, and that according to Muslim Shari’a experts we both sin in rejecting Mohammed.

Here’s the spectrum of beliefs I could come up with about Jesus:

1. Jesus never existed.

2. Jesus existed, taught heresy, and was crucified by the Romans.

3. Jesus existed, was an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi who was crucified by the Romans, and that his words were distored by his followers (as Kipling said) where they disagree with Orthodoxy.

4. Jesus existed, that what he taught was true, and that where his words disagree with Orthodox Judaism it is Orthodox Judaism that has it wrong.

5. Jesus existed, could have been the Mashiach, but that he was crucified by the Romans which stopped the process.

6. Jesus existed, was a special human being (just like Moses and Abraham were special), and that he was crucified as punishment for our sins.

7. Jesus is an eternal part of G-d who took human flesh.

By: w. berman

w. berman — Sun, 20 May 2007 01:59:08 +0000

When Judaism is reduced to ultra nationalism on the one hand or picayune “frumer than thou ” attitudes on the other-this is the result.The success of Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews in the U.S. is part of the same tragic problem!

By: Joel Rosenbaum

Joel Rosenbaum — Thu, 17 May 2007 23:00:33 +0000

I have been reading Rabbi Adlerstein’s articles for years not only in cross-currents, but in various sites across the web. His writing is always provocative, insightful and passionate. His advocacy and the intensity with which he defends the pro-life agenda is especially gratifying. And even when I find myself in disagreement with his conclusions, as for example, his stand on the death penalty, at least I come away after reading his articles questioning my own beliefs. When Rabbi Adlerstein writes I listen. So it came as more than a disappointment when he describes the messianic Jewish video using such pejorative imagery. Why should it be painful to see our fellow Jews embracing life with spirituality, faith and joy? Why should we watch expressions of joy at our peril? Why indeed does he ask the rhetorical question: “how did it come to this?” The answer seems to be that spirituality, joy, faith, the desire to be a part of the Jewish people, to serve in the defense of the Jewish state suddenly become null and void, contaminated, dirty, and vile if coupled with the belief in Jesus. These same holy Jews that would be welcome as brothers and sisters where they atheists, new age or Buddhist Jews are somehow suddenly lost to us even though they celebrate the Sabbath, serve in the army and consider themselves an integral part of the Jewish people. What right does Rabbi Adlerstein or anyone have to exclude these holy Jews from our midst? The video brought tears to my eyes and hope for the future. May their movement continue to grow and prosper. May we in the orthodox camp learn to embrace diversity in all its beauty. From the fervent intensity of their worship it is quite clear that these Jews have found a high quality spiritual product. May we come to understand that if the competition in the market place of spirituality builds a better product rather than trying to destroy it we should work to increase the quality and attractiveness of our own spiritual products.

By: michoel halberstam

michoel halberstam — Tue, 15 May 2007 14:53:30 +0000

Now that we have figured out how to bring Chabad into this discussion, it should take on a life of its own.

By: D. Cohen

D. Cohen — Mon, 14 May 2007 01:17:19 +0000

The video on the Messianic Jews was probably one of the first in Israeli media to portray the Meschichim in a positive light. It amazes me that the mainstream Jewish community ostracizes these Jews while not coming out against the Lubavitcher Meschichim whose beliefs border on Xtianity- see the article at this link (from an article at Haaretz) http://rickross.com/reference/lubavitch/lubavitch47.html. While I am not advancing one position over another, I find it capricious that those whose positions are almost identical to those who believe in “Rebbe Yeshua” are not labelled as a missionary threat (which they truly are, as they harass Jews with their moshiach materials in the streets and subways of New York, and closely resemble the proselytizing of JFJ with their tracts and literature).

By: Roman Catholic

Roman Catholic — Sun, 13 May 2007 22:10:15 +0000

Re: Rabbi Menken’s video link in #37, the film is prefaced “June 2, 2006.” That was Friday, but Shavuot, no? Sorry, I’m not familiar with what goes on ba’Aretz nor do I really learn these things at St. Joan of Arc–so correct if I’m wrong–but don’t Shabbat restrictions apply on Shavuot?

By: Yaakov Menken

Yaakov Menken — Sun, 13 May 2007 20:02:54 +0000

Mark, I agree with you that all of this sort of display is counter-productive.

But just to be fair to those protesting, if this is the video — it’s far too bright out to have been Friday afternoon. The neighborhood around the shuk is an observant one, and the workers apparently came in with a truck to do their business on Saturday afternoon. There would be complaints if trucks drove down residential streets early Sunday morning in most US locales, just not expressed the same way.

By: mark

mark — Sun, 13 May 2007 19:38:27 +0000

Last Shobbos a friend of mine saw one of her young neighbors standing on a street corner yelling, “Shobbos! Shobbos!” at the passing cars. His tone conveyed anger and indignation, rather than sadness at the desecration of Shobbos, or – what would have been even better—a smiling message of celebratory joy, as in “Good Shobbos!”

She went up to him (she’s a grandmother) and said, “You know,the way you’re doing this will just push people away. It won’t make them want to try observing Shobbos.”

He replied, “Ze baia shelahem.” [“That’s their problem.”]

I saw a video on YouTube recently that was quite disturbing. Charedim all dressed for shabbos were taunting chilonim who were closing up shop after a hard day’s work, late Friday afternoon. “Shabbos…shabbos…shabbos…” They did not stop. It was clear that the chiloni workers were exhausted and just wanted to close up and go home. Their day of work was done, but the frustration on their faces was very visible. It seemed to say, “We just busted our collective rear ends working all day and we just want to go home (or wherever) in peace.”

I have little doubt that if the charedim would instead approach some of the workers with a smile and say, “How would you like to join me for a wonderful shabbos meal with delicious food and zemirot. My family would love to have some company…” It would have done a lot more good than the methods they have chosen to use. Why the heck would anyone want to be observant after being harassed? The approach is all wrong.

By: sima ir kodesh

sima ir kodesh — Sun, 13 May 2007 16:18:15 +0000

The week after Purim, the weekend edition of the Jerusalem Post magazine section had an article about the charadeiazation of the neighborhood of Ramat Eshkol. It is a must to read (or download) to get an honest opinion of the early residents of the neighborhood and why they are so upset with the present situation of charedeim taking over? They complained that dealing with ISRAELI CHAREDEIM is impossible in contrast to the AMERICAN CHAREDEIM who are more open to discussion. Several complaints were:
1. Setting up electric generators that are not safety-checked, with wires all over (those who do not use electricity on shabbos)
2. A lack of cleanliness and respect for building residents (carriages and bicycles thrown around the lobby, etc.)
3. Do not participate with the Vaad Habayis re: repairs & cost of living
4. Using all neighborhood facilities (parks, daycare, tipat chalev) with out paying arnona.
5. Lack of menchlekeit for the elderly, handicapped and chiloni residents.
These are some of the quotes from the article, true or not, it does open your eyes to the feelings and needs of your co-residents. My personal solution: More aliyah from AMERICA is needed.

By: Loberstein

Loberstein — Sun, 13 May 2007 05:02:14 +0000

It took me until now to watch this video and it was a struggle to not stop it before the end. It is so tragic that in our Jewish State we have failed so misserably to project a positive image of our faith to our own fellow Jews. How many secular Israelis are prey to these people? How many think that orthodox judaism is synonimous with backwardness, intolerance and hypocrisy? I think the current generation of Israelis no longer know what it is they reject. If they think bad thoughts about torah judaism , it isn’t their fault. true, the secular media is anti-religious , true the political system mitigates against the separation of religion and state, but we have to find a way to overcome these obstacles and show the pretty face of Judaism, not be the “ugly chareidi”.

By: Roman Catholic

Roman Catholic — Sun, 13 May 2007 04:55:19 +0000

Actually, the video downplays the nature of the attacks by Gur Hassidim on Messianic Jews. It was at a Messianic Jewish congregation here in the U.S. that I first learned about the Gur firebombing and trashing Messianic properties in Arad. This is in addition, the reports claim, to the Messianic Jews being repeatedly subject to insults and taunts. I’m with the viewpoints above that call for expressions of love and reaching out by Jews to fellow Jews.

By: Baruch Horowitz

Baruch Horowitz — Fri, 11 May 2007 21:10:37 +0000

I mentioned above something I’ve read, that “religious Jews being genuinely happy in observing Shabbos, is as important as protesting or saying to chilonim ‘Shabbos’ “, but I didn’t mean that the author endorses the latter. I think that he was responding to a letter from a Baal Teshuvah who was turned off by protests taking place in Israel, and he was trying to strike a balance between addressing the writer’s concerns, versus not being overly-critical of elements of the charedi community.

There was an interview in Mishpocha some time ago with a Chassidic Rebbe in Israel. He studied in a Tel Aviv yeshiva as a teenager, and one Shabbos there, he passed a secular Jew driving his car, who stopped and shouted ” good Shabbos” to him, in an imitation of the “Shabbos-zuggers”. Instead of reacting angrily, the boy warmly spoke to the driver, and after a few minutes, he promised never to drive on Shabbos again! While this is not a typical example of behavioral change, it is noteworthy what a brief positive interaction could accomplish, even with a teenager.

By: Sarah Shapiro

Sarah Shapiro — Fri, 11 May 2007 05:09:51 +0000

Last Shobbos a friend of mine saw one of her young neighbors standing on a street corner yelling, “Shobbos! Shobbos!” at the passing cars. His tone conveyed anger and indignation, rather than sadness at the desecration of Shobbos, or - what would have been even better — a smiling message of celebratory joy, as in “Good Shobbos!”

She went up to him (she’s a grandmother) and said, “You know,the way you’re doing this will just push people away. It won’t make them want to try observing Shobbos.”

He replied, “Ze baia shelahem.” ["That's their problem."]

By: Bob Miller

Bob Miller — Fri, 11 May 2007 01:50:40 +0000

We should not discount the sophistication of the missionary networks and their operatives’ ability to camouflage themselves.

By: One Christian's perspective

One Christian's perspective — Thu, 10 May 2007 21:23:18 +0000

Christians do have a few commands but these are not all.

1. Love your neighbor as yourself and do him good - every person is created in the image of G-d and he is your neighbor.
2. Love G-d with all your heart, soul, mind and strength
3. Forgive those who do you harm
4. Love your enemies, do good for those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
5. Do not worry - that is unbelief
6. Do not judge or you too will be judged in the same manner and with the measure you use.
7. What is the kind of love that G-d approves.
Love is patient, kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. It is not rude. It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
8. Give generously and with a cheerful heart to G-d and to those in need
Lend to your enemies without expecting to to be repaid in full.
9. Give praise and thanks to G-d in all things
10. Do not think more highly of yourself than you ought. Be careful if you think you are standing firm, you might fall.
11. Do not show favoritism
12. Do not do your righteous deeds before men to earn their praise
13. Do not cause your weak brother to stumble
14. Do to others as you would have them do to you (Hillel also said this)
15. Do not lie, steal, covet, commit adultery,
16. Do not worship idols. Do not commit idolatry.

By: Cross-Currents » What is the “Haredi Education Law?”

Cross-Currents » What is the “Haredi Education Law?” — Thu, 10 May 2007 21:15:32 +0000

[...] As one person pointed out in comments this afternoon, the two Degel haTorah representatives are negotiating to join Olmert’s failing government. Their intended goal is to ensure passage of something called the “Haredi Education Law,” under which, according to Yediot, “local authorities will fund state schools and non-state schools equally.” [...]

By: Yehoshua Friedman

Yehoshua Friedman — Thu, 10 May 2007 20:27:26 +0000

Without giving any blanket alibis for the phenomenon of “dreary” frum Judaism, we have a lot to do. They can just focus on being nice. My friend Mark Powers of Harrisburg, the director of Magen, a counter-missionary and outreach movement, is a great exemplar of a Jew who is genuine without being accusing to members of the missionary movements. He has had success with individuals, sometimes after many years, because he has earned the respect of those who encounter him. Another person in that category is Moshe Kempinski, whose store in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem is often the scene of all sorts of discussions with people of all sorts of beliefs without getting into a theological food fight. More people have to learn to be happy and good-hearted. When a stranger walks into your shul, beis midrash or other community activity, walk up, be friendly, show interest, say something besides “you’re sitting in my seat”. The whole point of Torah and mitzvos is to work on your inner being through your outer actions. Even justified indignation at evil can leave a person with negative character traits.

By: cvmay

cvmay — Thu, 10 May 2007 19:53:23 +0000

Teaching Emunah starting in yeshiva ketanas and continuing into Mesitvos, to our children would make a major difference in being “sameach bechaldo”. A stronger focus of “ben adom lecharero” will solidify warmer relationships, and open channels for discussion amoung Jews.
To love every Jew as if he is an intimate family member, is a mantra of the teachings of Rav Kook z”tl. Understanding and respect should not be connected to indoctrination. The political haggling of the Torah Parties in Israel, incites secular society to look at the Torah observer as self-absorbed, small minded and bribe able. (eg: Today’s news, UTJ negotiating for Charedei funding will join the govt)

Thank you Rabbi Adlerstein for bringing these issues up for discussion.

By: de la costa

de la costa — Thu, 10 May 2007 14:42:29 +0000

there was an allegation made above that xtian $ to the settlers is the problem. i doubt there is much of this shmad in settler areas. there has always been huge dollars and MANY different ministries, usually led by US meshumads, who have concentrated on this specialty. they have good tv shows, slick publications etc. this money would come in regardless of xtian-west bank politics. helping the jews and converting them are 2 separate xtian mitzvot…..

By: Phil

Phil — Thu, 10 May 2007 12:44:33 +0000

Can someone elicit Rabbi Tovia Singer’s comments for this blog?

By: Sarah Lipman

Sarah Lipman — Thu, 10 May 2007 10:58:31 +0000

What are we to do, practically speaking? If the idea is to take the lesson from this that we need to work on relaxing and experiencing the pleasures of “simply enjoying the moment” of mitzvos — whether zemiros, learning, time with our families, davening — then the point is well-taken. Learning to appreciate our moments with the Ribbono shel Olam is a challenge in today’s frenetically-paced world. I am grateful for the reminder.

By: Moshe Hillson

Moshe Hillson — Thu, 10 May 2007 08:47:58 +0000

After viewing the video, one gets the impression that the religion shown appeals to its adherers as another one of the new-age religions, which appeal to seekers of instant spiritual gratification without toil and effort, as opposed to genuine Judaism – acceptance of the Oral Torah, which prescribes effort as a pre-requisite for any spiritual growth. IMHO, that is the root of the problem, more than any other of the numerous reasons mentioned.