Knowing our Limits

A group of five feminists, including novelist Naomi Ragen, has petitioned BaGaTz against the Mehadrin lines maintained by two publicly-subsidized bus companies: Egged and Dan. Petitioners do not demand the immediate cessation of Mehadrin service, but rather that the Court order the Transport Ministry to conduct a study of the necessity of separate seating bus lines and require Mehadrin buses to be clearly labeled.

At the hearing before BaGaTz, a good deal of attention is likely to focus on an incident that took place on the number 2 bus between Har Nof and the Kotel last November 24. In a widely circulated Email, Mrs. Miriam Shear, an Orthodox grandmother from Toronto described an alleged attack on her that day. According to her email, she rode the number 2 bus to the neitz minyan at the Kotel daily over a period of five weeks that she was visiting in Jerusalem. Though that particular bus line is not a Mehadrin line, the majority of passengers on the line are chareidi, and she was asked on a number of occasions to move to a seat on the back of the bus. In each case, she refused.

According to the Email, on the morning in question, a male passenger told Mrs. Shear that he wanted to sit in her seat and asked her to move to the back of the bus. She noted that there were two open seats in front of her and another across the aisle, and again refused. At that point the man spit at the middle-aged grandmother, and she reciprocated in kind. That led to a knockdown brawl, in which Mrs. Shear’s hair-covering fell off and was thrown out of her reach, she was kicked in the face, and she was surrounded and jostled by four men, including the original assailant. (I was able to confirm from Mrs. Shear’s host in Har Nof that she returned home hysterical from this encounter and with a badly swollen face.)

Predictably, this particular Email began spread like wildfire through cyberspace. Mrs. Shear was sought out for feature stories and interviews by some of the world’s largest TV and print media, most of which, to her credit, she refused. Equally predictably, a Reform leader penned an op-ed piece in the Jerusalem Post in which he compared Mrs. Shear to Rosa Parks, the black woman whose refusal to move to the back of a public bus in Montgomery, Alabama helped spark the American civil rights movement. For good measure, he also compared chareidim to the Taliban in Afghanistan, and that comparison has been picked up and repeated ad nauseum.

If BaGaTz eventually bans Mehadrin public buses, those who were so insistent that Mrs. Shear vacate her seat will have made a significant contribution to the final decision. Certainly they have already helped make Torah Judaism appear as something ugly and fanatical in the eyes of hundreds of thousands around the world.

It is unlikely, however, that those involved in the bus incident will ever know of their “achievements.” But what concerns me more is the fear that even if they knew of them that they would have no regrets. There is, unfortunately, a small, but not negligible, segment of our community for whom the image of Torah Judaism in the larger world is a matter of utter indifference. All that matters, in any given situation, is what they perceive as the immediate religious imperative. Concern with the spiritual state of their fellow Jews is not even on the radar screen.

No doubt among my readers there are those who will point the finger of blame at Mrs. Shear: Why couldn’t she have moved to the back of the bus? Why did she have to distribute her Email so widely, knowing that it would generate great attention? And perhaps they are right.

But to focus only on her actions is to miss the point. There is a growing tendency in our community to attempt to impose our halachic standards, even chumrot, whenever we have a momentary majority, such as on the early morning bus to the Kotel. Even leaving aside the consequences of such a strategy on the attitude of traditional and secular Jews towards the chareidi community and Torah itself, I fear it is a dangerous approach.

Democracy may not be the Torah’s ideal form of government, but in recent history it has generally proven to be the best protector of the rights of Jews and of our ability to flourish as Torah Jews. Therefore Torah Jews have an interest in playing by the rules of a democratic society. If we want the majority of Israeli society to respect the rights of the chareidi minority, then we have to also respect the rights of the majority.

To argue that the rules of the game followed by Torah Jews in America do not apply to the chareidi community in Israel is, in my mind, a perverse form of Zionism.

Adopting violence as a tool would be a disastrous mistake, even from the most narrow and short-range perspective. As Yossi Sarid and other secular politicians have been only too happy to remind us over the years, at the end of the day, the secular public is much larger and has lots more guns.

Separate seating on buses may be a very positive thing. And if it is important enough to the chareidi community, then the community will support our own separate bus lines (though hopefully not by throwing stones at competing public lines, as has happened in Ramat Beit Shemesh).

But separate seating is not the only Torah value at stake. Yereim v’shleimim in New York regularly ride the New York City subways, on which the crowding is far greater than anything experienced on Egged buses in Jerusalem. And the late posek hador, Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, zt”l, long-ago ruled that it is permitted to ride New York City subways (Igros Moshe, Even Haezer 2:14).

As in so many cases, if we don’t keep values in perspective, we risk losing much more, including the command to make Torah beloved through our actions. The pending BaGaTz is but one example.

Published in Mishpacha

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141 comments to Knowing our Limits

  • Jewish Observer

    “Since when is it a matter of Jewish religious principle to not separate?”

    - Vacation Village swimming pool

  • dovid

    “The frum media has a way of trying to keep things like this within the “family”.”

    “Thank G-d she brought this to the media.”

    To go to Ha’aretz or Channel XYZ? Have you lost your mind? What do you hope to achieve? If you go Ha’aretz, why shouldn’t Naturei Karta go to Arafat or kiss Ahmadinejad? What’s the difference? Yes, we have “bad apples” in our family. The issue must be dealt in a manner prescribed by our Torah leaders. You seem to have a major problem in your neighborhood. Ask a sheilah. Go to the very top until you know what you have to do. Not one of them will suggest to enlist Ha’aretz’s help.

  • dovid

    Rabbi Menken:

    Why do you expect Mrs. Shear to comply with the local mores (when in Rome…), but you make no comparable demands from her assailants who touched and molested a married woman in public and uncovered her hair(derech chibbah or derech sinnah makes no difference)? This is certainly not done in Yerushalaim. Since we are on the topic, Mrs. Miriam Shear has answered our questions. Where are her assailants? Why are they hiding like vermin?

  • dovid

    Would anyone be surprised if we find out that Mrs. Shear’s attackers also beat up their wives to the pulp and treat their mothers like doormats? I wouldn’t. These things usually go hand in hand.

  • dovid

    Zev write: B/c they’re not even remotely in the same league.

    Are you in any of the two’s league to entitle you to classify them?

  • Jonathan Rosenblum

    STOP THE PRESS

    I just received a call from a woman named Feigy Miller in Har Nof who was on the number 2 bus the morning of Mrs. Shear’s altercation on the way to the Kotel. She called me after reading the article in Mishpacha, and her account is different in a number of ways and in nuance.

    Mrs. Miller rides this particular bus every Friday morning. Though the number 2 bus is not formally designated a mehadrin bus, she says there has been a long-standing custom for men and women to sit separately on the very early morning route, with most women even entering from the back. In fact, her husband adds, during peak usage times, like Chol HaMoed, Egged even sends two buses — one for men and one for women.

    Mrs. Miller told me that she was sitting about four rows behind Mrs. Shear. According to her, when the assailant got on in Mattersdorf there were no more seats in the men’s section besides the one next to Mrs. Shear, and he asked her to move. When she refused to move, he spit at her as Mrs. Shear said. She does not remember seeing Mrs. Shear spit back, only her sitting there looking terribly humiliated. At some point, Mrs. Shear stood on her seat and ripped off the man’s hat and kippah. Her head covering was also removed and tossed.

    At no point, did Mrs. Miller see anyone strike Mrs. Shear. Nor did she see a bruise on her face. And she says that when Mrs. Shear summoned the police after getting off the bus, she kept repeating, “He spit at me; he spit at me.”

    [No one is defending spitting, which, like removing a woman’s hair-covering, is subject to a very heavy fine in the Mishnah in Bava Kamma.}

    As long as I am here, I’d like to respond to something Rabbi Menken wrote yesterday. He said that what took place on the bus was not an instance of bias or prejudice but of sincere religious belief. The two are not antonyms. Those who genitally mutilate young Muslim girls or who kill their older sisters to protect “family honor” may also be motivated by sincere religious belief. As I always tell feminist religious advocates, how much you want to do something — i.e., your sincerity — is not a halachic criterion.

  • Menachem Lipkin

    From Dovid:

    “Have you lost your mind?”

    Yes, if you happen to find it, please return it to me. :)

    “If you go Ha’aretz, why shouldn’t Naturei Karta go to Arafat or kiss Ahmadinejad? What’s the difference?”

    Just night and day. Ha’aretz does not deny the holocaust, call for the extermination of world Jewry, threaten the destruction of Israel, or blow up innocent children on buses and in restaurants.

    Actually, in a sense these “zealots” are worse than Neturei Karta. (Who are finally, in no small thanks to massive media attention, being ostracized.) The Neturei Karta have “only” conspired with those who would do harm to their fellow Jews. The “zealots” continue to physically harm their fellow Jews on a regular basis.

    “You seem to have a major problem in your neighborhood. Ask a sheilah. Go to the very top until you know what you have to do.”

    We have a major problem all over Israel not just in Beit Shemesh. Our rebbayim have met with the Rabbis in RBS B and other chareidi hot spots. The Chareidi Rabbis have explicitly stated that this problem is beyond their control. These “zealots” have even been reported to have attacked Rav Eliyashiv’s house and car. The Rabbinic leadership has abdicated it’s responsibility to deal with this issue.

    “Not one of them will suggest to enlist Ha’aretz’s help.”

    I heard a shiur from Rav Hershel Schachter on Mesira. He was asked if there are times that it’s OK to go to the media. He said that when the Rabbinic leadership can’t or won’t deal with the situation then it is sometimes necessary to start a “crusade”, i.e. go to the media.

    (You can listen to the shiur here:
    http://www.torahweb.org/torah/audio/nobodytalks.html
    The question I’m referring is about 29 minutes into the shiur.)

  • Jonathan Rosenblum

    FURTHER UPDATE

    I should have waited before the last post, but I’m leaving the country and was afraid I would not have a chance to post again before doing so.
    (As far as I can tell the Comments don’t have a draft function, like regular posts, or I would have held it.)

    Just talked again to Mrs. Shear’s host in Har Nof. She confirmed that Mrs. Shear’s face was red and swollen when she entered the house after returning from the Kotel, and she could immediately tell that something was wrong. (I had previously spoken to her. This just a reaffirmation of what she told me then.)

  • Jewish Observer

    “during peak usage times, like Chol HaMoed, Egged even sends two buses—one for men and one for women”

    I think it is important to stop and take note of a “lefi tumo” comment that we as charedim tend to take for granted. Egged sends two buses. EGGED SENS TWO BUSES!! Do we appreciate that??

    Might it be useful for us – if only from a purely pragmatic point of view – to call out and publicly recognize Egged’s accomodation toward our religios needs much as we are always on the ready to pounce on any misdeed e.g. El Al? If we charedim are as benevolent, big hearted and compassionate as we like to say we are, what is the worst that come out of a public declaration of hakarat hatov to all those institutions who have made our lives as charedim better? Maybe then people would take our whining more seriously (that’s the pragmatic side).

  • Zev

    “Are you in any of the two’s league to entitle you to classify them?”

    Don’t be ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything in learning knows who’s who in the hierarchy of talmidei chachamim, and the facts are as I said.

  • Zev

    “Those who genitally mutilate young Muslim girls”

    That’s a poor example. The same could be said by anti-Semites regarding bris milah.

    Re. the Shear case, from Mr. Roseblum’s post it now appears that her story may not be entirely true, which would explain why no corroborating witnesses or video have appeared.

  • dovid

    “the sad truth is, as well, that Mrs. Shear picked this fight.”

    Rabbi Menken, if the thugs that molested Mrs. Shear will in 6-week time spit and kick me in my face, etc. for eating gebrocht, will you say it’s my fault and that I picked this fight?

  • Miriam Shear

    Zev: There IS a corrobarating witness who has come forward both to the police and the media. He has verified the accuracy of my statements 100%. He was sitting literally only about 3 seats away and had an excellent view of the entire incident.

  • Bob Miller

    “…if the thugs…will in 6-week time spit and kick me in my face, etc. for eating gebrocht, will you say it’s my fault and that I picked this fight?

    Comment by dovid — February 14, 2007 @ 10:55 am”

    You need to arm yourself with high density knaidlach and flaming matzo brei.

  • dovid

    “If you go to Ha’aretz, why shouldn’t Naturei Karta go to Arafat or kiss Ahmadinejad? What’s the difference?”

    Arafat and Ahmadinejad want to eliminate us physically. Ha’aretz hates our mahus and want to finish us off spiritually. Mr. Lipkin, name your preference.

  • Baruch Horowitz

    Because it involves creating additional chilul Hashem, I also don’t think that it’s the right approach to tell the media , but have we provided an alternative? It’s a little like Monday morning quarterbacking telling people from Ramat Beit Shemesh not to go to Haaretz; Haaretz reports about these things all the time because of their own agenda. When there is a long-standing problem, you can not tell people, solve it yourself by “going to the very top, until you know what you have to do”. That is not the way to run a community.

    It is the job of the community to publicly communicate that it has a game plan for solving problems, and to create a structure for dealing with issues, instead of leaving things to an ad-hoc process, with people needing to figure out what is yashrus(correct behavior) on the #2 bus, or how to deal with a particular problem without desecrating G-d’s name. The fact is that there is a problem of zealotry unique to Israeli society, as in America we don’t have these issues.

    Even if the process is a gradual one, the media must be apprised of a long-term plan for improvement, and dealing with complaints. For example, Mayor Mike Bloomberg rightfully takes credit for reducing violent crime in New York City. He didn’t solve the problem, and the city government certainly has plenty of failings, but at least he can point to a game-plan for the coming year that he put on the table(eg, shifting police when the area mandatess it), and he can be held accountable for its implementation. What is the equivalent of such a plan, even a long-term one, in Ramat Beit Shemesh and in Israel in general, and how is there communal accountability?

  • Bob Miller

    The primary need in this case is to make tangible progress to solve the problem. Getting favorable media attention comes after that. Windy press releases won’t move anything ahead.

  • dovid

    “Still if a person comes to synagogue and finds someone else in his place, it is not fitting to start a fight over it. Etc.”

    Mrs. Shear: Your kol v’chomer is not a kol v’chomer because a bus doesn’t have the din of a shul. The only makom kavua in the bus is that of the driver. In Europe, some seats are designated to the elderly and handicapped. No matter how many times you sat on your favorite seat, I can come tomorrow and take it if it is not occupied. Once you occupied it, it is all yours for as long as you wish. I would like to respectfully point out that the desires of the kahal need to be taken into account. For example, regardless of the nusach I usually daven, if I go to a shul and want to daven at the amud, I am expected to daven the nusach of the shul. We need to show more flexibility and be more forthcoming to one another, even when we are within our rights. Your error, however, is miniscule compared to the public that witnessed your being lynched without protesting, as well as those of us who continued the lynching on line.

  • dovid

    Mr. Lipkin,

    You won. I listened to Rav Hershel Schachter shiur on Mesira. It is exactly as you wrote. From a pragmatic point of view, I still don’t see the toeles of working with Ha’aretz. It has no influence on the fellows that give your neighborhood a hard time. My question is whether you can ask for police protection. In the US this probably would not be an issue. I wonder whether the Israeli police’s indiscriminate eagerness to smash Charedishe heads, way beyond the call of duty, accounts for the reluctance of the Rabbis in question to resort to their help.

  • Baruch Horowitz

    The question becomes, how can the charedi community bring improvement in this regard, and why isn’t the problem being addressed as strongly as the issues which we hear about in the media (cell phones, hechsherim on clothing shops, Beis Yaakov degrees, El Al, etc.)? What is wrong with a public gathering or some type of limud yomi for kiddush Hashem, just as there are for tzniyus and/or Shmiras Halashon?

    I also wonder how the religious Zionist community has gone about distancing itself from its own extremists that have tarnished its image in the press. Have they been successful? In the case of the charedi community, it is up to the non-Edah Hacharedis leadership to get the Edah leadership to institute harsh measures against zealots such as cherem, since I think most zealots are affiliated with that community. At the same time, both communities need to be able to demonstrate to the press and the public, that it’s image is on it’s agenda in education for both children and adults.

    If Menachem Lipkin(comment # 107) is in fact correct that “the Chareidi Rabbis have explicitly stated that this problem is beyond their control” and that “ the Rabbinic leadership has abdicated it’s responsibility to deal with this issue”, then that is a recipe for disaster. No community is immune from bad PR, but shaming the charedi community into change by involving the media comes with a high price in terms of new chilul Hashem.

    I’ve read that MK Avraham Ravitz is trying to make a dent in charedi poverty( $500 million is the total sum needed), by meeting with different groups abroad. I don’t know if the community can concentrate on the problem of it’s image at the same time that the humanitarian need is so acute, and while it is also constantly emphasizing insularity. In any event, I would sincerely like to see us reach a point when the American Agudah is able to publicly address the issue with brutual honesty, and in the meanwhile, I salute the lone voices who do discuss this, even gingerly.

  • Menachem Lipkin

    Dovid,

    Nobody is winning here, except maybe the zealots. As for a toeles. The media publicity is not directed at these criminals. If they are not going to be affected by gedolim they certainly won’t be affected by a secular newspaper. The target audience is the more reasonable heads among the chareidim who may possibly be jarred out of their silence if the chilul Hashem that people who look, and in many cases think, just like them is magnified in this way.

    Here in Beit Shemesh, if anything, the police have been accused of being too benevolent. It’s sometimes reminiscent of the Crown Heights riots when Mayor Dinkins just let the rioters “vent”. However, in actuality from information we have received from the police liaison the police are doing some decent covert work and are making arrests. It’s sometimes those arrests that have triggered some of the rioting. I’ve had e-mail correspondence with a couple of people in RBS who actually have expressed that they wish the police would act more like the ones in Jerusalem!

  • Jewish Observer

    “What is wrong with a public gathering or some type of limud yomi for kiddush Hashem, just as there are for tzniyus and/or Shmiras Halashon?”

    yes! I would also throw in hakoras hatov. reb baruch, I feel so strongly about this that would actively work (with you?) on an effort to influience charedi leadership toward such an event. it would have to start with the left or middle of the charedi world with the hope of spreading rightward. you in?

  • Miriam Shear

    David – The kal v’chomer point was as you write: If a bus, which does not have the din (or kedusha) of a shul; if the only “true” makom kavua is the bus driver’s seat then just as one should not fight over their makom kavua in a shul, kal v’chomer over a non-makom kavua on a public bus. As for your point that we should all “give” a little: You are 1000% right. And that’s what bothered me here. Egged has “given” the chareidi community mehadrin buses; the rest of the community, for the most part and this includes our heeloni brethren, has honored this system. As the most minute measure of hakores hatov, the chareidi community should respect the non-mehadrin status of buses when THEY get on them. When I get on a mehadrin bus, I respect the status. I expect them to do the same on others. If they want to change it, they can go through the process which Egged has allowed them to change the status.

    What frustrates and exasperates people like myself is that, not only is their no “give” on the part of some of them, but the violence and intimidation that is heaped on others when their views are not adhered to. And sometimes, it is the innocent people in their own community who are made to suffer for their actions. An example of this was the tire, garbage can, car burnings that went on for weeks in most chareidi neighborhoods that sent hundreds of people – particularly babies, small children and the elderly – to the emergency rooms. The pleas of health professionals who were measuring air quality warning that the carcinogen particles in the air was at a dangerously high level fell on deaf ears. I was one of those people who was bedridden for 3 days with a respiratory infection from this toxicity. At some point, some of us decide “enough!” If it means digging my heels in on something as “minor” as a seat on a public bus, then that is one small way to say to the thugs “you will not push us around anymore and you will not do so with impunity”. Again, it’s the minor pushbacks that sometimes keep the thugs from imposing total anarchy.

    There are more issues here that I will be addressing from a broader view in an article that will be released soon.

  • Steve Brizel

    After reading 123 posts, I side with Baruch Horowitz’s well reasoned posts on this issue. There does seem to be a lack of awareness that everything that a Torah observant Jew does, regardless of his or her hashkafa, will have the potential for Kiddush or Chillul HaShem, regardless of one’s connection or lack thereof. WADR, is that not the fundamental principal underlining the halachos of Kiddush and Chillul HaShem?

  • Zev

    “There IS a corrobarating witness who has come forward both to the police and the media. He has verified the accuracy of my statements 100%.”

    Why then has his name and testimony not been reported in the media?

  • Baruch Horowitz

    Jewish Observer,

    I am not sure what you have in mind, but you are welcome to e-mail me at borhowitzREMOVESPAM@yahoo.com(delete the capital lertters).

    Miriam Shear,

    If you are examining the topic of separate seating on Egged buses in the context of other modesty issues in charedi society, I hope that you will be fair to both sides of this issue. Even advocacy journalists acknowledge the need to be fair, despite advocating a particular point of view.

    There are sensitivities and concerns on both sides, and I am interested in reading an essay which will examine the issue fully. Mrs. Schmidt in her CC post and Op Ed articles makes a good point that the progressive promiscuity of secular society leads to additional insularity in the charedi world; it is like the Rambam writes about going to the other extreme. It is also understandable that teenagers would be distracted when women dress up during the wedding season on buses, even though the women in question are all frum and dressed modestly. Nevertheless, separate seating in reaction to the latter concern is a new chumrah.

    On the non-charedi side, some see the bus issue in terms of other new customs, such as separate lines in a Benei Brak bank(except during rush hour), or hechsherim on clothing shops. There is a concern that there needs to be a point of balance. Previously even in Israel, and currently in charedi neighborhoods in Brooklyn, there were never such stringencies. What is to stop the charedi world from moving in a continued direction this way?

    The NPR article mentioned that “senior Haredi rabbis in Jerusalem led a public burning of see-through stockings and other allegedly risqué dress”. I am curious if the “senior Haredi rabbis”, which I assume are limited to the Eidah Hacharedis community, are mainstream even within that community. Where is the source in the Torah for burning clothes in public gatherings?

    As long as the separate seating are confined to clearly marked Egged lines, the move to the right in the charedi world shouldn’t bother anyone from outside. As Mrs. Schmidt wrote, “the Orthodox need to do much introspection to minimize the offense to those who prefer mixed seating”. Once such sensitivity is displayed, the charedi world is free to adopt any new stringency it wants on its own buses. For those in the charedi world who are unhappy with all of these new stringencies, I hope that there will always be other communities in the charedi world where people can choose to live without adopting the different practices in question.

  • Miriam Shear

    Zev, The witness, Yehoshua Meir, was not only identified by name but also had his picture taken and published in Haaretz. He lives in Har Nof. His name and phone # is also on file with the police. Furthermore, with his permission, I turned his phone # over to the journalists, a couple of whom acknowledge speaking with him. Again, Mr. Meir confirmed every single aspect of the events of November 24th.

  • Jewish Observer

    “As long as the separate seating are confined to clearly marked Egged lines, the move to the right in the charedi world shouldn’t bother anyone from outside.”

    - I am sure it does put a cost or overhead on the system, which should at least be acknowledged / appreciated by charedim who want it. I think that a display of hakoras hatov would satisfy those who resent the extra cost

    “the charedi world is free to adopt any new stringency it wants on its own buses.”

    - Thing is the buses aren;t theirs, unless they actually develop a private bus company

  • Zev

    Okay. Would you happen to have a link to a piece in which he is quoted?

  • Zev

    Thank you. I see that Mr. Meyer does indeed confirm your account.

  • SM

    Zev, I disagree with almost everything you have said on this thread and my sympathies are entirely with Mrs Shear.

    BUT, confirming in public what you previously doubted is a complete kiddush Hashem and you have set a real example.

  • Jewish Observer

    “confirming in public what you previously doubted is a complete kiddush Hashem and you have set a real example”

    - I’d like to call out for commendation SM’s act of publicly recognizing the action of Zev

  • Zev

    “Zev, I disagree with almost everything you have said on this thread”

    Really? What exactly did I say that you disagree with?

    “my sympathies are entirely with Mrs Shear.”

    Mine too, assuming the event actually occurred. However, unlike you, I am not prepared to simply accept the story on her say-so.

  • Jewish Observer

    “Mine too, assuming the event actually occurred.”

    - echoes my sentiments about the Gush Katif episode last year; if that indeed took place

  • Zev

    “echoes my sentiments about the Gush Katif episode last year;”

    Huh? I don’t get the connection.

  • dovid

    “confirming in public what you previously doubted is a complete kiddush Hashem and you have set a real example.” Comment by SM — February 20, 2007 @ 6:41 pm

    SM, the above glorifications and praises were a touch too early: “I am not prepared to simply accept the story on her say-so.” Comment by Zev — February 21, 2007 @ 5:36 pm

  • dovid

    Zev,

    Mrs. Shear has been b’cheskas kashrus throughout her ordeal. You asked for corroborating evidence. She produced it. Two individuals independently corroborated her story. You still don’t seem to be satisfied. If you can’t bring new facts to the table, just let it go.

  • Zev

    “You still don’t seem to be satisfied.”

    True, I’m not entirely satisfied. On the one hand, Mr. Meir did corroborate her account. On the other hand, the same article quotes the driver of the bus, who claims it did not occur. It’s possible he’s just practicing some prudent CYA, but what about the woman on the bus who called Mr. Rosenblum and contradicted Mrs. Shear’s story? Anyway, it’s still unclear, which is why I’m not satisfied.

  • Jewish Observer

    “Anyway, it’s still unclear, which is why I’m not satisfied”

    - We should defer addressing Mrs. Shear’s issue until Zev is satisfied …

  • Zev

    “We should defer addressing Mrs. Shear’s issue until Zev is satisfied”

    No. You should defer addressing it until it’s clear there is an issue to be addressed.