Nobody is no naive as to think that ElAl was ever really “Shomer Shabbos” — they prepare their planes on Shabbos for motzaei Shabbos flights, and rent out their equipment (and more) for Shabbos use of other airlines. This is news to noone. (So much for chareidi “intolerance.”) The issue here is BLATANT chillul Shabbos, and who defines an “emergency” that supercedes kavod Shabbos.

ElAl maintains that they will continue their overall policy of not flying on Shabbos; good for them. What they don’t want to do is commit to appointing or hiring a Rav with the power of deciding when it is or is not appropriate for them to fly on Shabbos. It’s a matter of principle for them.

I do understand that people often feel uncomfortable with actions that will not be welcomed or understood by the secular community (this is addressed to many of those who posted comments here). I tend naturally to feel the same way. But standing by one’s principles is worthy of respect more than compromising them — which doesn’t end up pleasing anyone, anyway. [Again, see my comments above regarding BLATANT chillul Shabbos, etc. -- obviously, some of the principles we need to stand by are Ahavas Yisrael and Kiruv Rechokim... but they are not the only ones.]

Hopefully, this whole mess will be soon resolved amicably, and we will ALL have gained something from it — like how to tolerate, and take into consideration, the sensibilities of others who might not be quite exactly like us.

“Anyone who lives in Israel knows (or should know) that the chareidi community has had a policy for WELL OVER 100 YEARS of not patronizing Jewish-owned businesses that are blatantly mechallel Shabbos (not the owners—the businesses).”

Then it’s quite odd that many of the Chareidim who are boycotting El Al are switching their flights to Jewish-owned, Shabbos-flying Israir.

Better be served in a German transport by the children and grandchildren of the German Train Staff who became infamous for their roles in executing the Final Soluton, than to be served by a cross section of Jews from Eretz Yisrael. Will this boycott lead to the kiruv rechokim,(repentance of the nonreligious) of those employees of El Al who are not yet Shomrei Shabbos or will it lead to further alienation from Shabbos and Yidishkeit? In my world view one gets more with honey than with a stick.
El Al is a strategic asset of the State of Israel. To tamper with that is to tamper with the security of all the Jews in the yishuv,(Jews living in the Land of Israel

Anyone who lives in Israel knows (or should know) that the chareidi community has had a policy for WELL OVER 100 YEARS of not patronizing Jewish-owned businesses that are blatantly mechallel Shabbos (not the owners — the businesses). There are museums, activities, and so on that are open on Shabbos, which are not patronized by those in the know — a boycott, if you will, only one not so well publicized today. [In general, I understand that this doesn't apply to the Jerusalem Zoo, where the keepers are obliged to come and feed the animals on Shabbos anyway, and a semblence of respect is offered to Shabbos by having tickets sold in advance.]

So the choice to not fly on ElAl if they are mechalel Shabbos for a financial “emergency” is ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY consistent (or should be). For one who is chareidi to do otherwise, in fact, would be to sacrifice one’s beliefs in doing what is right in Hashem’s eyes because one feels more safe with ElAl’s security. Translation: trusting in Man more than in Hashem, chas v’shalom.

Now, I, too, have seen over and over again the attention to security detail on ElAl that cannot be matched by any other airline (rechecking luggage that was checked-through from another airline; security supervision of the ground and cleaning staff; checking items purchased in Duty Free shops; inspecting the gate area for suspicious items…). And I have seen them make a wonderful effort to improve their customer relations, especially with the religious community, over the last few years. I, too, prefer to fly ElAl (as noted above) — for security, to support Jews… lots of reasons. But I do NOT prefer to make a statement through my actions that I trust people more than G-d. (Talk about safety…!)

Maybe some people shouldn’t be so quick to label other people as “extremists.” One person’s extreme-ism is another persons idealism and consistency.

Religious “extremism”? Huh? Is there really something “extreme” about insisting that the national airline of the Jewish people not violate Shabbat. I don’t think so. I’ll be cooperating with the boycott until I learn enough about the circumstances to learnedly decide one way or another. El Al should realize, though, that many non-Haredim who value Shabbat are also likely to avoid El Al if Shabbat flights were to become normal. As it stands I can’t yet tell if the boycott idea is appropriate or foolish–but because I do value Shabbat I’m going to give the initiators the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

(But in general, note to self and friends: The “boycott” threat is unveiled way too often and is rather like a comfortable sofa (or calming drug) that distracts us from addressing issues for real. Has anybody thought about doing something really heretical, like setting up Shabbos meals for all of the El Al technicians and employees at Ben Gurion airport?)

Of course Chareidi Leumi is also correct: There’s something irredemably silly in demanding that an organ of a country you demean and don’t recognize behave the way you demand! For goodness sake, it’s like an angry child who refuses to acknowledge his mother and then demands “but you’re going to give me macaroni, right?!” Come on. If the state of Israel is meaningless and/or terrible then just be consistent with that attitude and ignore the state completely. On the other hand if the state does mean something significant for Jews and its rights and wrongs have implications for Am Yisroel then just admit that and live normally with it instead of pretending that the state is some kind of noxious untouchable Frankenstein that’s just too big and scary to deal with (except, of course, when we really want something from it…)

Please. If you actually even believed that then you wouldn’t care less about what El Al does or doesn’t do. But reality has a messy way of intruding on manicured ideology.

That said, it is a lot easier to start an airline than most people realize: There are a lot of unused aircraft available for lease, and lot of laid-off pilots, flight attendants, and ground personnel available for hire. The actual start up capital investment is very low compared to most other businesses. However, most airlines lose money — a lot of it. Are there enough wealthy Orthodox people who are willing to pour money down a black hole for an indefinite period? I’d strongly prefer that El Al not fly on Shabat, but it is now a privately owned business and the owners can do what they want with it. Why didn’t the Orthodox community oppose the privatization?

This should be a wake up call to elal and i am surprised its taken so long

You can’t be serious. El Al keeps Shabbos and Kashrus and tolerates minyanim. How on earth can you say that Continental is “more accomodating for the religious flyer”?

Back on topic: Bravo, Baruch. And Steve, I think it needs to be clarified that the rabbi you were citing was *not* R’ Schoenfeld.

If only the amount of chillul Shabbos among pillars of the Orthodox community were known, there wouldn’t be so much of a fuss over what was very clearly an aberration on the part of El Al, which had chosen- of its own free will, now that it’s private- to keep not flying on Shabbos and keep serving kosher. You can cite individual examples of them violating both, but those are clearly the exceptions that prove the rule, and threatening them with boycotts will clearly not make them more disposed to continue on this path. For that matter, I’m increasingly tending toward eating the regular El Al food- they put in an effort for kashrus, and have it thrown back in their faces, just like this tempest in a teapot.

For that matter, if the flight in question was (as it was) a one-time matter, what will any “talks” accomplish? That El Al will promise to keep, well, doing what they do now? I’m sure it’s quite enjoyable to prove to yourself how frum you are by “boycotting” El Al, but why not think for a second what you hope to accomplish?

The desire for El Al to operatate in Shabbos observant mode is a legacy from its state-owned days. This in and of itself is part of the larger irony of the non-Medina-supporting Chareidim demanding that the medina they don’t support behave in the way they demand.

You want a frum society then the buckle down and behave as part of the society; join the army, pay your taxes, and go to work. And for G-d’s sake stop annoying everyone else with your holier-than-thou attitude.

Mah Inyan zeh etzel har el al

Now THAT deserves more outrage from gedolim than El Al. These rodfim shouldn’t be allowed back into Eretz HaKodesh.

If one’s gedoilim or even Young Israel Rabbi in KGH feel there is a grave sakanah by flying a Jewish airline that tramples and desecrates Shabbos than how can one reconcile permission to fly for “hefsed merubah”? Does any amount of money trump one’s personal safety??