- while not chas v’shalom saying anything about his gadlus, I don’t know that “gentle tzadik” is davka the most apt way to describe Rav Schach, ztz”l. He definitely took a kanous’dikeh line on things. he was in essence willing to sacrifice his name and put up with the shmutz inevitably thrown at politically activite figures, apparently because he felt it was worth ot for the cause. others like R’ Shlomo Zalman did not see their role as political or otherwise couldn’t personally tolerate the messiness entailed. But given Rav Schach’s actions on behalf of his shitos it is surely no surprise he had vociferous detractors.

You wrote–”…the world has not ended.”

This brought back memories of New York City Mayor Ed Koch, who intoduced the first “Gay Rights” bill in the Nation and said–one year after the bill was passed by the New York City Council–”The sky has not fallen!”

Well, he was right. The sky didn’t fall, but the sky-high World Trade Center buildings did fall–on 9-11–a few years later.

Something to think about.

I think it’s embarrasing, by the way, that a supposedly educated Jew wouldn’t know that Purim took place centuries *before*, not *after*, Chanukah.

Do Charedi men in Jerusalem have such outlets, or would it be considered Bitul Torah (wasting time when you should be studying Torah)? If the second, maybe a different outlet for physical activity will reduce riots when they are inappropriate (without getting into the argument of whether they were inappropriate in this case).

- “the world has not ended” ?? what’s your proof that the tough plight we are in is not affected by things like this?

As much as we all condemn the murder and mayhem that occurred in the riots in American cities in the 1960s, we still looked to the underlying root cause - overt discrimination against blacks in nearly all sectors of American life since the Civil War.

This essay does not attempt to do that. What is the reason for the rage? - a rage by the way that was unaccompanied by murder or looting. This was far more of a protest than a riot.

The reasons for the protest are the rage against a homosexual movement that has hijacked Western society. AIDS, HIV, sexually transmitted diseases, gay marriage, licentiousness, destruction of the family.

Where are the leaders? Where are the rabbis? When the people feel they are being properly led, there is no need for street protests. But where there is a failure of leadership, people take to the streets.

Property damage is wrong. But Rosenblum writes an easy sermon. The harder sermon to preach is the failure of secular and religious leaders to address the growing threat of the homosexual culture.

Jonathan wrote: “A massive demonstration….would have made clear…”

There was never any chance that such a massive demonstration would materialize, since, as everone in Jerusalem knows, the Gerer Rebbe forbad it. The Rebbe even forbad Hamodea from writing a single word about the GayParade and the weeklong protests. (The Hamodea, in its Weekly Edition this week, defends its non-reporting.)

Rav Eliashiv was caught between the Gerer Rebbe, who didn’t want the homosexual issue to be raised in public, and Rav Weiss of the BADAT”Z, who demanded a public Mechaah. Rav Eliashiv finally decided in favor of the demonstration, sans Ger.

Since the Gerer Rebbe heavily influences Agudath Israel, they were mostly silent.

So, there was never a possibility of a “massive demonstration.” All that remained was action by followers of Rav Eliashiv and other “LitVishe” leaders, coordinated with protests by the Chareidi/Leumi community.

Maybe we should call them “tzaddikim” while we’re at it.

So why do we blame the pope(lhavdil elef havdolos) for not taking a stand during the Holocaust? Would the Nazis have listened to him?

I object tothe term “rioters.” It is a loaded word.

“protestors” or “demonstrators’ are, I believe, the more appropriate terms.

Actually, I think this minimized chilul hashem. It would have certainly been worse if the secular neighborhoods would have been burnt by the charedim. Perhaps this was a calculated decision on the rioter’s part?

“Last week’s events, however, make it less likely that secular Jews will seek the answers to their admitted spiritual malaise from us and not in some ashram in India. And that is a tragedy for all of us.”

Very true, but place the blame where it belongs, on the Israeli secular society and its elites, led by the Shmagatz who have allowed the matters to deteriorate to this point.

“And for the Torah community, it is no less a tragedy that concepts like Kiddush Hashem and Klal Yisrael never entered the minds of last week’s rioters.”

I’m not so sure why R’ Rosenblum makes such a blanket generalization. He brings the following as a proof: “When youth in Ramat Beit Shemesh stone Egged buses carrying other chareidi passengers because Egged has failed to institute separate seating.” But how does one generalize from that one instance? Perhaps some of the rioters were rioting l’shem shamaim. It’s certainly not so farfetched given the issue involved.

R. Rosenblooms speaks of “rioters” who seem to have invaded Chareidi communities from outer space. The community accepts no responsibility for those acting in its midst. In fact, violence is a problem in the Chareidi community and its causes have to be explored, even if that causes pain. The violent attempts to resolve leadership issues at the prominent Ponevitz Yeshiva show that this is a problem facing the Chareidi community at its highest levels.

R. Rosenbloom names prominent secular Israeli columnists who are open to asking whether they have lost the way, and worries that they will now be less inclined to accept answers from the Chareidi community he represents. These fears are well founded, but this is not what R. Rosenbloom should be worried about. Rambam in hilkhot teshuva writes that the worst punishment that Gd can mete out is to withdraw the capacity for doing tshuva (repentance). Unless R. Rosenbloom, as a representative of the Chareidi world, is prepared to take his critique beyond where it currently is, I would be inclined to think that the Chareidim have been afflicted by this punishment.

- is it surprising?

“Why were the Gedolai Hador and the Roshei Yeshiva silent during the riots”

- Your questions assume that rabbis’ pleas would be effective. if these people would be the type to listen to rabbis, they might also be the type to act like mentschen in the first place. this is not about rabbis. if rabbis have to tell people to behave like human beings we have much bigger issues, that rabbis can’t solve.