On the JPost site, Aviva writes: “I have seen this flyer and I have spoken to my relatives in Mea Shearim. No one in the religious community distributed this flyer–it has all the symptoms of a hoax concocted by the gay crowd in order to generate media sympathy and attract more participants to their parade.”

That theory is just as likely as any of actual Charedi authorship, and certainly far more tenable than any claim that it has actual support.

Combined with the recent news of a pamphlet offering a bounty to those who kill gays, and the general Haredi attitude in cases like this, I have a hard time respecting these branches of Judaism (even though I am orthodox myself). It is digusting how hypocritically, hatefully, and disgustingly we can act under the guise of being \”pious\”.

For now, I\’ll have my connection with Hashem, and let him sort all the crazies out.

Including the societal ills promoted by the parade under discussion! Or do you disagree?

When the serial monogamists plan their parade in our Holy City, we can deal with that, too.

The concept of Mishpatim does not mean that, had it not been for the giving of the Torah, we would be operating in a fog of atheism and complete moral relativism. Even without the Torah, human kind is expected to understand that there is a Creator of the Universe, who created it with certain norms for nature and society to function.

Without the Torah we would not be able to intuit ourselves that, say, Sha’tnez should be forbidden, but we would be able to able to understand that murder is a terrible wrong because it destroys the tzelem Elokim (as indeed the possuk in Noach states.)

That is the case for homosexuality. God created man as a male/female duality. Human sexuality and procreation are a deep part of a person’s psychological and spiritual identity. Homosexuality is deeply destructive of that creation. That is why our tradition views it with such abhorrence.

Our Torah is more than an arbitrary set of rules to live by. It is the very blueprint of creation — including the creation of man. The parsha in Bereishis 2:18-24 makes clear that who would be man’s partner in life was a crucial step in man’s creation.

While some mitzvos or issurim are hard to appreciate as other than arbitrary (the Chukim), not all are. When someone is engaged in — indeed is proud of and flaunts — behavior that we understand is destructive of the human psyche and soul, we should not be embarrased to point it out. And as I said before, this is not a Jewish issue, it is a human one, going back to the very creation of man.

But you end off with “Call it “gay-bashing” if you want. The Torah clearly considers such activity abhorrent and destructive to the human identity.” That line of reasoning puts us back into square one because you have circled yourself back to the Torah.

So even according to you, someone who is unaware that the Torah should guide his/her life may decide to adopt a homosexual lifestyle and will expect to be allowed to parade it in public.

You wrote “embarrass me.” I was referring to your embarrassment at reading the words of undiluted Torah.

Rabbi Feldman has a right to his opinion, but there are other Gedolim who have other opinions.

The Rebbe has a big following to AND MUST STOP the obscene parade of
indecency, scheduled for our Holy City!!
Women worldwide are asked to recite appropriate Psalms for him and to preserve the continued sanctity of our Holy City which is being threatened by this upcoming travesty. Please send this to all the caring women you know. May Hashem bless His people with Peace.
Because of righteous women we were redeemed from Egypt & because of
righteous women we will once again be redeemed!!!

There are just different ways to address things (as Shira noted above) and special thought and sensitivity must be put into public comments.

(I have heard R Ahron speak in the arba koslei beis hamedrash and its a different ballgame entirely)

Homosexuality is forbidden not only to Jews, but also to Bnei Noach, along with idolatry, murder, incest, etc., all of which are mishpatim and all of which are subject to universal disdain (as indeed homosexuality was until very recently). So it is a problem not merely to the Jewish condition, but also to the HUMAN condition.

The prohibition for Bnei Noach to engage in arayos flows directly from the creation of man as a two-gender species. Bereishis 3:21-24, the last possuk being the source of arayos for Bnei Noach. Engaging in arayos is destructive of this aspect of creation — man’s Divinely created gender identity.

Call it “gay-bashing” if you want. The Torah clearly considers such activity abhorrent and destructive to the human identity.

Are you ashamed of undiluted Torah?

The main reason that baalei teshuva are seeking out Orthodox Judaism, in preference to Conservative or Reform, is that they are attracted to undiluted truth, without apologies.

I think that attacking the issue in this non-pc fashion could only be done by someone unaffiliated. Imagine Avi Shafran writing that in the Forward. . . or R Ahron Feldman telling it to Trembling. . .

Shira: I think a bigger question is this: Does Yaffa’s view represent “us”? Is American Charedi-ism or Yeshiva Orthodoxy proud of Yaffa’s essay or ashamed of what she wrote? Why can she say what none of our leaders are willing to profess in a public forum?

[Personally, I understand where she is coming from, but as I am a young American Jew I think it was too intolerant and would turn off gay Jews completely. I like Barry Fruendel and R Ahron Feldman's approach much better. I would prefer if articles like that did not appear in public forums and embarrass me.]

It’s a good thing that Matisyohu and his Macabee sons didn’t regard the Greek idols as a “done deal.”

We may not be able to influence the courts, but we certainly have the economic and cultural tools to shut the city down.

As I have written on Cross-Currents, IMHO there is no persuasive argument against homosexuality unless you accept Leviticus. . . Comment by Gedalia Litke

I am a frum jew and I agree with the above comments. This makes me wonder why Yaffa wrote her article in the first place and what difference it makes whether she used a nuanced or strident approach.
The bottom line is that we are bound by the Torah while they do not consider themselves bound by the Torah. Since they are not bound by Leviticus they practice homosexuality and take ‘pride’ in their culture. As a natural result of which, they would like to exercise their right to hold a parade (after applying for permits etc.) to celebrate and advertise their practice. They are not any different than any other ethnic culture in that sense.
There are 2 ways to counter them and stop them from holding the parade:
1) convince them to accept the Torah, in which case the argument is not about the deviancy of homosexuals but rather about God and Heaven and other fundamental Kiruv-essque topics;
2)persuade them to honor the feelings of the majority of the Holy City’s residents, in which case the argument should be an impassioned plea for sensitivity.
I don’t understand why Yaffa chose to address Homosexuality at all. That is clearly not the issue for them, nor for us.

Please allow me to correct a misconception on your part. Rabbi Yehuda Levin is a personal friend of mine, and he has been representing the Agudas Horabonim–Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the Us and Canada, and The Rabbinical alliance of America on this issue for over 20 years.

Perhaps you’re confusing the Agudas Horabonim with the OU. The names are similar Rabbi does not represent the OU-Orthodox Union.

but R’ Levin actually speaks for another organization (an old one but seemingly not important anymore) with a similar name. See http://www.orthodoxrabbis.org/index.html . He has been involved in various right-to-life and public morality causes.

I’m sure he’d get less air time if better-known Orthodox leaders would come forward to present the Torah viewpoint on the planned march. They may holding back because they regard the march as, unfortunately, a “done deal”.