ah! now I get it! no, I am an Aaron. So Bob, what is your charedi name?

“‘Larry, see here…’ I haven’t heard this expression in years”

So I was wondering if he had heard “Larry, see here” from people talking to him.

I don’t understand the question

The point needs to be made that simply because some other group or person is more negative–this is no opportunity to respond in kind. I would like to see all Jews to act in lovingkindness towards each other. It is truly disheartening to hear some Reform and Conservative Jews speak with such vitriol. When I call them down for such sentiments, the response is often 1) apology followed by 2) more vitriol. Then, when I complain that the apology appears to be half-hearted, sometimes there is no acknowledgement,sometimes there is denial and sometimes the person can be reached.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3231460,00.html

I haven’t heard this expression in years

Is mild sarcasm ever OK when it comes to pointing out gaps in orthodoxy?

- To protest so vigorously against these “aberrant” causes is to accord the very esteem we would wish to withold.
- The degree to we object should be commensurate with the degree of impact the objectionable activity has. No one with whom I have debated this point has argued that there is an actual threat posed by Conservative and Reform. The argument invariably is that we need to fight for the truth, for (literally) g-d’s sake!
- This is all based on a lot of confidence about what g-d wants from us. I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that Rabbis Kanievsky or Elyashiv are OK with us NOT making a mecha’ah here. I would actually be surprised to find out that these “problems” are on their radar screen
- Absent a constructive purpose, we should feel safe sticking with a default of ahavas yisroel, with everything else needing an airtight cost/benefit analysis (i.e. heter). I can’t imagine getting blamed for such a stance when it really counts.

If one goes over Larry’s quotes, none of those which speak about “Conservatives” or “Conservative Jews” come from our writers, and with good reason. We know the difference between the laity and the Rabbinate. The fact that the level of vitriol aimed at Orthodox Jews (not merely its Rabbinate) by Reform and Conservative leaders is incomparably more vicious, is not even the point.

Comment #1 is from Eytan. Conservative leaders do believe they can make more knowledgeable Torah decisions because they can balance Torah with anthropology and psychology — “there was no such thing as a monogamous homosexual relationship then.” Yes, we think that is ridiculous (an adjective which means “deserving or inspiring ridicule“).

Comment #2 is actually not from one of our writers, but is quite similar to #3 from Shira Schmidt — these are recollections of statements made by the Reform Rabbis in question. So Larry is saying that we can’t quote Reform self-criticism? Is that because it is “mean-spirited” or because it is “polemical?”

We do not believe the modern movements are a long-term success. Not long ago, I said that “history demonstrates that resistance to conversion and opposition to intermarriage serves the Jewish people well.” A comment in response called this “nonsense.”

There are still people out there who beleive the Reform and Conservative rabbinates have their act together. It behooves us to point out that this is not the case, even with mild sarcasm.

I stand by this 100%.

I’m sorry, sometimes tough love is required, and that is true Ahavat Yisroel.

When our Conservative brethern delete required Torah readings from the Yom Kippur service (Leviticus/Homosexuality punishment) in order to cater to the current politically-correct fashions, we must tell it like it is and say that they are exhibiting the signs of a classic inferiority complex.

If they were proud and confident of the validity of their Torah traditions, which were handed-down to then directly from G-D at Sinai, they wouldn’t dream of making such a cowardly deletion.

As the author of one of those comments, I feel obliged to respond to your assertions.
Certainly, if one is addressing a secular Jewish crowd, these comments would not be helpful at all. If one however, is addressing a crowd that understands why these movements are flawed, there is no reason not to do so. In fact, it can be most enlightening and helpful in illustrating why we hold so fiercely to our principles. I’d like to believe that this blog primarily addresses Jews of that order and I believe the tone of many of the articles written by our bloggers reflects this as well. Rabbi’s Feldman, Adlerstein, Menken, etc. all have written pieces dissecting the ReCon movements. Our comments reflect those sentiments.
You may be correct in worrying that to a secular these comments will be unhelpful and therefore question the very premise of the blog [I actually wonder that as well] but so long as it exists, I think we should make our point clear as day. Couching our distaste for the falsification of Judaism in politically correct terms will serve absolutely no useful purpose at all.

Following are some examples of sarcastic, mean-spirited and/or polemical comments made on this blog that I believe are unproductive (or worse) if our goal is to truly present the beauty of Torah to our fellow Jews. Does any one of these comments truly exemplify the Ahavat Yisroel that Hillel (comment 41, above) acknowledges as being incumbent upon each of us:

“That [Conservative rabbinical] committee is, after all, composed of individuals possessing not only great expertise in Jewish law, but also in-depth knowledge of all truly relevant disciplines, a partial list of which includes anthropology, psychology, history, archaeology and sociology, and surely at least a few of them speak a good (or can at least say “pass the relish” in) Ugaritic or read Syriac (airport signs) as well … But even more importantly, these committee members are all people of exquisite ethical sensitivity, infinitely more so than the authors of Torah …”

“He actually believed there was such a thing as a sin—apparently this made it difficult to get a Reform job.”

“A Reform male rabbi told me the percent of men in rabbinical schools increases when the general job market is tight. When it’s hard for men to find work in other professions, they turn as a last resort to the rabbinical schools.”

” … Reform and Conservative Jews. The defining characteristic of these heretics is that they suffer from an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the majority gentile culture that surrounds them.”

“I cannot help thinking that both the Conservative movement and Hamas are bent on destroying things sacred to Jews: the Conservative ideology is destroying Jewish law, and Hamas is bent on destroying the Jewish state.”

“I can’t wait for the bestiality vote. That’ll be a fun one to watch. After all, the torah says all kinds of things about being kind and loving toward animals. That should be a slam dunk.”

“The tragedy here is that the Conservative experts are not knowledgeable enough in Torah to even recognize the right thing. They are spinning their wheels until they identify the most expedient decision.”

‘Nuff said, at least for now. Our Jewish people await our better efforts.

My defense of authentic Jewish tradition was not intended as an attack on you or any other Jew–our tradition demands Ahavat Yisroel (love of our fellow Jews).

The issue is physical survival and honoring our obligations to G-D, which we undertook at Sinai.

Kiruv of alienated Jews is not promoted by watering-down authentic Judaism with an admixture of Darwin, Marx and Freud. We will bring our brothers back from the wasteland of modern life only by showing the true beauty of real Torah Judaism–Shabbat, Yom-Tov, and spiritual purity.

Do you believe that the charges made are not true, or just not useful?

If you felt deeply that your religion was being publically falsified, sabotaged, and demeaned in an organized way, with or without bad intent, what would you do?

Are Jews to whom modernity means far more than “being a professional” able to “strictly observe Torah traditions according to the Shulchan Aruch”? Does R’ Norman Lamm, who is not a “professional” but a Rav and Rosh Yeshiva?

“In the Pirkei Avos (Chapters of the Fathers), this line of traditon is specified clearly as being in the hands of the leading sages of each generation.”

Where does it say that? Read what it says. In any event, Pirkei Avos is speaking of halacha- of Torah Shel B’al Peh. Not whether secular studies is permissible, or whether black hats need be worn.

Again, I’m not saying the Rambam was “Modern Orthodox.” Try the following sentence:

“____-Orthodoxy was created in the 1970’s or at the earliest the 1960’s. It is based on certain ideas and institutions going back to the 1920’s. It draws inspiration from Jewish ideas of the 1800’s, 1700’s, the middle ages, and as far back as the Talmud.”

You can stick “ultra” or “modern” into the blank. Neither goes back to Moshe at Har Sinai.

There is only one true Mesorah tradition from Sinai. In the Pirkei Avos (Chapters of the Fathers), this line of traditon is specified clearly as being in the hands of the leading sages of each generation.

When the Jewish People were sent into exile after the destruction of the Temple, different practices arose in different areas of the world, mainly Sefardi and Ashkenazi. Both practices are accounted-for in the Shulchan Aruch. Both traditions are loyal to the Torah, without question–the differences are relatively minor.

However, we have periodically suffered from Jews who have sought to imitate the gentile cultures around them–Karaites, Saducees, Hellenizers, Maskilim, Reform and Conservative Jews. The defining characteristic of these heretics is that they suffer from an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the majority gentile culture that surrounds them. To make themselves feel better, they seek to integrate these gentile ideals into their version of Judaism, thereby compromising Torah standards.

Rav Kotler was describing these kinds of heretics when he spoke about “Modern Orthodoxy.”

Rav Kotler was not referring to Jewish professionals, who strictly observe Torah traditions according to the Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law). Rav Kotler fully-supported Agudas Yisroel, which, as you know, has a very large membership of Jewish professionals.

Anybody can ask anybody for advice, but psak falls into another category. You may get an indication from an educated Jew that the chicken you bought is or is not kosher, but you still need to consult with a posek to get a decision you can act on.

However, if the advisor is falsely posing as a rabbi, that makes any input from that advisor problematical, as it puts the advisor’s veracity and character into question.