Yes, it’s a generalization, not meant specifically about you or anybody else. Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word prayer either, because I didn’t just mean religious Israelis. It just seems to me, living here in the US, that most Israelis of my generation do not consider the state of Israel, as imperfect as it is, as a blessing, but rather as something that restricts them - in contrast with our parents and grandparents.

Note: I’m a libertarian, I think that we’d be able to live much better with a lot less government - but some government is required.

As you can see from Hillel above, Mor’ah Shel Malchut is also going away. If the solution to a problem, such as Abu Kabir wanting to do an autopsy, is direct action, then how far is Israel from having direct action to solve other problems, such as returning stolen items, solving contract disputes, or deciding the level of religious observance required in public? This is commonly called Anarchy, which has a bad track record in countries as densely populated as Israel.

Why do you put “fighting” in quotes? Is it not somewhat obvious that a trade-off needs to be made between monitoring international communications and privacy rights? I, for one, am extremely thankful that we have a President who knows good from evil.

Israel has always faced an existential challenge to its existence-see how civil liberties are affected in
GWB’s regime “fighting” terrorism.

If one had asked in a law school exam a hypothetyical like the 2000 election-in 1999-99.99% of people would have answered the Supreme Court would have not taken the question-either as a political question-or stated it is the duty of the states to determine how their electors are picked. or Cpongress as a political body would have decided the issue.

‘actual voters in 2000 ‘
No one seriously believes that more voters voted for Gore in 2000 than GWB-the question of Florida is tricky-according to everyone more people went to the polls in Florida intending to vote for Gore-the butterfly ballot where Buchanan and Gore got a lot of joint votes compared to Bush and Buchanan doomed Gore. Still if the votes were actually let to count-depending on the standard either Bush or Gore won. See results of consortium that the WSJ was involved in-why not more notice paid to if the votes were counted in Florida according to many standards including the one that Bush was arguing for Gore would have won-9/11 the results came just after 9/11 and we believed we were at war against rerorism and it would have sounded seditious to claim Bush didn’t win.
I personally am happy Gore didn’t become Pres.-it would have meant Lieberman as VP-not good for Jews to have Jew -and a somewhat traditional one at that as VP.

http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-2.html

What do you do when an Orthodox old lady dies a natural death, and the Jerusalem Police show up to take to to Abu Kabir in order to dissect her body and prepare an autopsy report?

Do you:

1. Try to reason with the Police thugs, who couldn’t care less.

2. Contact a Government Ministry who couldn’t care less.

3. Assemble 500 people to block the Police physically from desecrating the body ating the body and (according to our tradition) causing unbearable pain to the deceased.

This incident happened this week. Zaka (the Israeli hatzala group) arrived and tried options 1 and 2, with no effect. When 500 people arrived, determined to protect the Niftar with their bodies, if necessary, the Police realized that another Amona incident was in the offing and finally, relented.

In an oligarchy, like Israel, direct action is, sometimes, the only recouse.

At any rate, the phenomenon of elected officials abandoning their promises and platforms
after the election seems to exist everywhere, but to attempt to suppress the opposition
as in Israel is not common in the West.

Israel never had a disputed election that went up to the Supreme Court. Once the Supreme Court of the US got involved, it had to come out with a decision.

Israel has the concept of rule of majority, which is the basis of democracy. However, the concept of a limited government and individual rights that that government is not allowed to touch is a lot weaker than in the US.

“Thus when violence has paid off so handsomely for Palestinians and Israeli Arabs, is it surprising that settler teens hope it will work for them as well?”

So now our bright, well educated, Torah guided, youth are on the same level as the indoctrinated, morally depraved Palestinian terrorists? My answer to Gordon is, yes it is surprising! This is not the way we behave. This is not a kiddush Hashem.

I agree 100%

on whatever side. But her points about Israel’s frequent lack of democratic processes are perfectly accurate

Is Israel anyless democratic than the US-so far Israel has not had a Supreme Court openly taking a one sided political stance in an election.

Steve: Do you have links to the articles of Rabbis Lichtenstein and
Riskin?