I like many have unfortanatly happened on many sites that I wish i hadnt seen, but as wrong as those sites seem, they never effected me in a way that I felt destroyed my neshama. I have a more horible feeling after I send in my tax return and it bothers me to no end when i see other Jews make a chilul Hashem of any kind. It is those times that I question my Hihadus and wonder why we exist as a people.

I would really like to hear other opiinions on this matter, especially from those who know others that left the clan because of the unavoidable pictures.

duvidle

Regards from Yerushalyim,

Joshua

They may or may not, but when it comes to tv, the rabbinic proclamations were not what had the effect. What happened was that schools began only accepting kids from homes without tv. Schools are the agent of change.

you write:
“One last thing a number of years ago when a letter went out against televisions there was one gadol who didn’t sign it because he felt would people would still have TVs so it was not going to accomplish anything and therefore it would have a negative effect.”

I hope you weren’t using this to back up your point because all the evidence points to how wrong that person was. When I attended a very mainstream New York Yeshivah in my youth, there were only a handful of students [myself included] who didn’t have TV’s in their homes. Today, of those former classmates [36 in all] I doubt that even five of them have a TV in their homes.

My own children attend more of a community type school with children from all backgrounds and very few of the kids have TV’s in their homes. The ban on TV’s has accomplished an enormous amount and we’re all much better for it.

Now I personally think that if we were to ban something we should ban money. Money corrupts people and can lead people to do terrible things. Of course this will not happen because most people worship money and people who have money. I know of one person although he had to fund raise he never worshipped money and that person was the great Rav Ahron Soloveichik.

One last thing a number of years ago when a letter went out against televisions there was one gadol who didn’t sign it because he felt would people would still have TVs so it was not going to accomplish anything and therefore it would have a negative effect.

I’m a bit surprised at the bitterness of your invective against Satmar and Lakewood.

The overwhelming majority of the fine people in those communities mind their own business and do not participate in politics. Those who do are the exception, who prove the rule.

Satmar is THE address for anyone who needs a helping hand. They have an incredible variety of volunteer Torah lecturers in any subject imaginable. They are a bedrock source of support for many non-Satmar groups, who do not have the clout to go it alone, as witness their leadership role in the current battle over traditional circumcision in New York City.

Lakewood is a beacon of Torah, providing a reliable source of Torah scholars for communities all over the united States.

If there are significant numbers of people in Lakewood who object to the high standards that have been set by the Roshei Yeshiva, they are free to organize their own educational system that reflects their standards. They have no right to force the existing community to downgrade its standards to accomodate theirs.

Because I employ people who work from home in Lakewood, as well as in Israel, I am somewhat familiar with how real-world families address this ban. In one case, someone who was working only a few hours a week decided it was not worthwhile. But that does not apply to all of those for whom their work is a significant source of income.

One family first approached one of the rabbinic judges in Lakewood appointed to permit exceptions — he asked a few questions and decided immediately that it was okay. This family, however, did not only want permission, they wanted to know that they were truly doing the right thing.

So although it took a month or two, they were able to get an appointment with Rav Matisyahu Solomon, the Mashgiach. He again asked how they were doing things — which involves password-protection such that only the wife, who is the relevant employee, has access. He made it clear to them that not only is it permitted, but it is absolutely fine.

Is it not true that there are dozens of Torah schools where the family is expected to not own a television? We surely don’t imagine that everyone complies, but how many children have been expelled for violations? Yet no one can deny the positive impact that the no-TV policies have had on an entire generation of Torah Jews.

Lakewood was built by Horav Aaron Kotler, who demanded maximum standards—it is a resounding success. Don’t mess with this successful formula.”

Satmar & Lakewood, resounding success? Satmar fighting a civil war in the streets and in secular court, Lakewood rudderless and out of touch with its founding principles, two fine examples of success.

you write:
Evidencing an interesting bias – anyone to my “left” is anything goes.
KT

FYI I don’t live in Lakewood so don’t make silly assumptions. I chose not to move to Lakewood in large part because I didn’t want to be beholden to that mindset but I don’t begrudge the ones who do and that was my point. BP is Chassidish, Monsey’s a mix and Teaneck is more along the lines of MO and that was precisely what I was trying to demonstrate. None of them have rigid standards imposed upon them by anyone and people are free to do as they wish. If you don’t like the Lakewood model don’t live there. There are enough options out there for all. But don’t write about it as if they’re trying to control the frum world either.

Cyrk,
You write:
1. How snotty of you! No one reading Cross-Currents wants ‘anything goes’.Ed, This is the same psychology which puts honest working people on the level of a baal hogola 2. Boro Park can only be equated with Teaneck by someone ignorant of Jewish sociology. It seems to me that Lakewood is the new chareidi suburbia more than a yeshiva community.

I’ll leave your gratuitous insults aside and ask you to refer to what I wrote to Joel just above. I obviously have internet [not in my home but in full view of my secretaries and it's locked down pretty securely] and I’m no longer learning full time so get off your soapbox and read what I wrote. When I say “anything goes” I do not mean that people actually watch adult movies. I mean that you are free to do as you please without reckoning with a ban imposed by others. That’s it. Fairly simple I believe.
I am aware that BP and Teaneack are different [FWIW - I grew up in BP] and that was my point. You can stop worrying about the ban and live in any number of places you choose. But if you choose to live in Lakewood and reap the benefits of living in a community which is centered around a Yeshivah, be prepared for the Roshei Yeshivah to impose their will in some form or another. When it happens don’t cry for pity.

A lot of people were already living in Lakewood prior to a few months ago, who didn’t move to a community that doesn’t allow parents to use the internet.

Secondly, while it is not possible to assert with certainty what Rav Aharon
Kotler, ztl, would do under contemporary circumstances I am confident that
he would not in any fashion endorse a blanket policy of expulsion. He was
quite tolerant when it came to basic Torah education and he did not follow
in this regard the path exemplified by the Satmar Rebbe, ztl, as is evident
in his students sending their children to the local co-educational day
school, his leadership of Torah Umesorah and his establishment of Chinuch
Atzmai or Torah schools for Israel. For more on this subject, there is the
essay that I wrote eighteen years ago at his 25th Yahrzeit.

However that being said, I have no intention of supporting the Lakewood mosdos. I am commanded to teach my son Torah and the obligation to support Torah flows from that. Since the Lakewood mosdos would not accept my son, I do not consider myself bound to help them.

My father learned in Kletzk and has always considered himself a talmid of Rav Aharon and has supported BMG to the best of his abilities. It would pain him to find out that his Rebbe’s grandsons would expel his own grandson from mesivtah.

Memo to the Lakewood Cheder School: Please stop sending me the wall calendars.

Menachem Petrushka

It’s enabled someone in my position literally to be able to accomplish tasks most of you take for granted. It’s also very easy to avoid smut and ideas that don’t mesh with your particular hashkafah. All it takes is a little self-discippline, and discippline on the part of parents. Get a hardware firewall, block everything by default, and select the sites you want to allow through.

Rav Joseph wanted to fix all of America by imposing minimal Kashrus standards–he failed and died of a broken heart.

Rebbe Teitelbaum learned from this experience and decided that he would focus only on his own followers, from whom he demanded Maximum standards–he succeeded in building one of the largest Chassidic communities in America.

Lakewood was built by Horav Aaron Kotler, who demanded maximum standards–it is a resounding success. Don’t mess with this successful formula.

Comment by Edvallace
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Evidencing an interesting bias - anyone to my “left” is anything goes.
KT