A. It is not Tzniut according to the prevailing culture.
B. It had not been Tzniut according to the prevailing culture for the last x centuries.”

That’s a nice theory, but could you show me where it’s been codified? From what I’ve seen, no such codification exists.

-DMZ

http://jewishoutdoorsclub.com/joc-fd.aspx?f=guide

http://www.kba.org.il/dati/dati-english/absorption.htm#religious

It seems to me less a contradiction than a Chumra, defining something as non Tzniut when either:

A. It is not Tzniut according to the prevailing culture.
B. It had not been Tzniut according to the prevailing culture for the last x centuries.

It seems similar to the way Yom Kippur is observed for 26 hours - in theory it is supposed to be 24. But we don’t know EXACTLY when it is supposed to start, so we don’t eat as soon as twilight starts, and we don’t drink drink until it is full night on the following day.

Good question. Consider this:
1. Nose rings are considered non-tznius anymore, yet our matriarchs apparently thought they were. Why are they forbidden? Because the culture has changed.
2. Pants are considered non-tznius, yet the culture around us thinks they are modest and fine. Why are they forbidden? Because we don’t change just because the culture around us has changed - pants weren’t modest back in Europe, so they aren’t now. (And to head off the argument, I’m not referring to tight, hip-hugging jeans.)

I think the contradiction is rather self-evident. I don’t really care so much which mindset prevails so much as that _ONE_ of them does.

-DMZ

What are the two conflicting mindsets about tzniut?

Thanks

That’s one of the few things that I think the Conservative movement gets “right” - you’re allowed to have a debate on the issues, and people treat you seriously if you’ve got a reasonable argument. The yeshiva world (and the MO world, to be honest) seem to get stuck in this rut of “well, that’s how it’s done, and we’re not going to talk about it, let alone revisit it”, despite some serious unresolved problems with said issue. A good example of this kind of issue would be tznius, where there’s two conflicting mindsets applied at once - if I were to make a serious argument that we apply one or the other, but not both, that’s just not going to get any serious response anymore.

-DMZ

BTW, Rabbi Feldman describes how he got a mechitza into his shul in his book, “Tales out of Shul”.