Comments on: The Pope and Saying Goodbye - an Open Question http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/ A Journal of Jewish Thought and Opinion Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:41:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: DovBear http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2352 DovBear Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:50:28 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2352 You've asked a great set of question about funeral rite, but I do have one small quibble with your ooening statment. According to the International Herald Tribune: "On Thursday, two days before he died, the pope refused to return to the hospital for more aggressive treatment, deciding instead to die in the sparsely furnished bedroom in his Vatican apartment." Furthermore: "He was not at all holding onto life," Cardinal Achille Silvestrini, one of the last people to see the pope on the day of his death, said in a telephone interview Sunday. So, it seems clear that the Pope decided for himself that it was time to go. And, at least according to the 5 witnesses Judge Greer and the Court of Appeals accepted, Terri Schavio made a similar decision for herself, didn't she? "He was not at all holding onto life," Cardinal Achille Silvestrini, one of the last people to see the pope on the day of his death, said in a telephone interview Sunday. So, it seems clear that the Pope decided for himself that it was time to go. And, at least according to the 5 witnesses Judge Greer and the Court of Appeals accepted, Terri Schavio made a similar decision for herself, didn't she? You’ve asked a great set of question about funeral rite, but I do have one small quibble with your ooening statment.

According to the International Herald Tribune:

“On Thursday, two days before he died, the pope refused to return to the hospital for more aggressive treatment, deciding instead to die in the sparsely furnished bedroom in his Vatican apartment.”

Furthermore:

“He was not at all holding onto life,” Cardinal Achille Silvestrini, one of the last people to see the pope on the day of his death, said in a telephone interview Sunday.

So, it seems clear that the Pope decided for himself that it was time to go. And, at least according to the 5 witnesses Judge Greer and the Court of Appeals accepted, Terri Schavio made a similar decision for herself, didn’t she?

“He was not at all holding onto life,” Cardinal Achille Silvestrini, one of the last people to see the pope on the day of his death, said in a telephone interview Sunday.

So, it seems clear that the Pope decided for himself that it was time to go. And, at least according to the 5 witnesses Judge Greer and the Court of Appeals accepted, Terri Schavio made a similar decision for herself, didn’t she?

]]> By: Leapale http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2277 Leapale Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:09:16 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2277 I guess one can learn from everything. Your comment that our <i>takanos</i> are not for essential <i>kovod ha niftar</i> but rather for social equity reasons is important to bear in mind. That being said, the ceremony seemed to me to be a <i>'chizuk ha daas'</i> for them, and that is something that is significant in a <i>megshemdik</i> time in history. Will this fellow actually be the antidote to the Clinton cultural effect? I guess one can learn from everything. Your comment that our takanos are not for essential kovod ha niftar but rather for social equity reasons is important to bear in mind.

That being said, the ceremony seemed to me to be a ‘chizuk ha daas’ for them, and that is something that is significant in a megshemdik time in history. Will this fellow actually be the antidote to the Clinton cultural effect?

]]> By: Hanan http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2132 Hanan Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:55:41 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2132 Its definately both. I do believe its a cultural issue but with that comes fundamental differences. What about cultures out there that burn the bodies? On numerous occasions, I have been told that the way the Jews treat their dead is odd. The way a culture treats their dead is very important issue that sometimes defines that culture itself. So obviously anything different from that norm, may at times cause discomfort or even disgust. When I was watching the funeral last night, I was actually marvelled at how they do it. The amount of respect given to this man is overwhelming. I was well aware how utterly different it is from what we do. For one thing, our mourners don't wave flags around. But I never lost sight that this is a different culture with different practices, and I'm perfectly fine with that. That is the great beauty of this world. Its definately both. I do believe its a cultural issue but with that comes fundamental differences. What about cultures out there that burn the bodies? On numerous occasions, I have been told that the way the Jews treat their dead is odd. The way a culture treats their dead is very important issue that sometimes defines that culture itself. So obviously anything different from that norm, may at times cause discomfort or even disgust. When I was watching the funeral last night, I was actually marvelled at how they do it. The amount of respect given to this man is overwhelming. I was well aware how utterly different it is from what we do. For one thing, our mourners don’t wave flags around. But I never lost sight that this is a different culture with different practices, and I’m perfectly fine with that. That is the great beauty of this world.

]]> By: Yaakov Rosenblatt http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2130 Yaakov Rosenblatt Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:29:15 +0000 http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/04/08/the-pope-and-saying-goodbye-an-open-question/#comment-2130 Beneath every culture lies an amalgam of vaulues and climate, and we can surely review the Pope's funeral procession and observe values we agree with and values we reject. But why do so? Why not just see the greater good: Th Pope rejected the virulent anti-Semitism that has been part and parcel of Catholicism almost since its inception, doing so not because of public pressue (he held a very traditional line on other issues) but because he believed it to be true. And 4 million people came to show their respects to him. Halevai Vaiter. Beneath every culture lies an amalgam of vaulues and climate, and we can surely review the Pope’s funeral procession and observe values we agree with and values we reject. But why do so? Why not just see the greater good: Th Pope rejected the virulent anti-Semitism that has been part and parcel of Catholicism almost since its inception, doing so not because of public pressue (he held a very traditional line on other issues) but because he believed it to be true. And 4 million people came to show their respects to him. Halevai Vaiter.

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