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	<title>Comments on: Ready To Be Orthodox, But No Place to Go</title>
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	<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/</link>
	<description>A Journal of Jewish Thought and Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: A. Feldman</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-1227</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-1227</guid>
		<description>I may be the only one responding on the &quot;pro-charedi&quot; side of things.(as oppsosed to the MO, and the &quot;Straddle the fence responses that don&#039;t really address the issue). In short, the shortcomings of the Charedi world are really much less encompassing as those of the MO. Even though they seem rigid and unsubmitting, you will never find as much devotion and chesed to fellow jews as in the Charedi world. In fact it seems that the more religous, the more selflessness there is.    Secondly, even if they were true to the same extent, the charedi &quot;problems&quot; are indicative of a deep commitment to the survival of the Jewish way of living as G-d wants it, where the MO &quot;problems&quot; are revealing of a basic laid-back approach to everything spiritual, and shows where priorities are; and when halacha must &quot;fit in&quot;.   Shouldn&#039;t the choice be clear?  
       RESPONSE to &quot;bnai levi&quot; - although you are correct about their &quot;brother&quot;hood, there is absolutely no &quot;pro-ban&quot; attitude in either of these torah giants, and HaRav Ah. Feldman went through unspeakable personal lengths just to clarify and &quot;limit&quot; the ramifications of the &quot;ban&quot;; as oppsosed to just taking a &quot;pro-ban&quot; attitude as you suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be the only one responding on the &#8220;pro-charedi&#8221; side of things.(as oppsosed to the MO, and the &#8220;Straddle the fence responses that don&#8217;t really address the issue). In short, the shortcomings of the Charedi world are really much less encompassing as those of the MO. Even though they seem rigid and unsubmitting, you will never find as much devotion and chesed to fellow jews as in the Charedi world. In fact it seems that the more religous, the more selflessness there is.    Secondly, even if they were true to the same extent, the charedi &#8220;problems&#8221; are indicative of a deep commitment to the survival of the Jewish way of living as G-d wants it, where the MO &#8220;problems&#8221; are revealing of a basic laid-back approach to everything spiritual, and shows where priorities are; and when halacha must &#8220;fit in&#8221;.   Shouldn&#8217;t the choice be clear?<br />
       RESPONSE to &#8220;bnai levi&#8221; &#8211; although you are correct about their &#8220;brother&#8221;hood, there is absolutely no &#8220;pro-ban&#8221; attitude in either of these torah giants, and HaRav Ah. Feldman went through unspeakable personal lengths just to clarify and &#8220;limit&#8221; the ramifications of the &#8220;ban&#8221;; as oppsosed to just taking a &#8220;pro-ban&#8221; attitude as you suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliyahu Skaist</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-868</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliyahu Skaist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2005 04:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I struggle with this problem constantly. There is a large but quiet sector of the Chareidi world that could be termed &quot;Reasonable Chareidi&quot; but it is not an organized group. The reason it cannot be organized is because what makes this group reasonable is that they have not lost their personable and human compassion for individual Jews. The minute it becomes a movement it runs the risk of taking on its own purpose. I suggest that anyone frustrated by this painful aspect of the Golus should turn their focus completely on their own Avodas Hashem and view these situations of adversity as opportunities to rise above, be compassionate for, and to teach others what a true Yid is all about. Stewing in the frustration, anger, and loneliness only serves to feed on itself and increase the bitter feelings. I believe that this situation is one aspect of Chevlei Mashiach, may he come speedily in our days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I struggle with this problem constantly. There is a large but quiet sector of the Chareidi world that could be termed &#8220;Reasonable Chareidi&#8221; but it is not an organized group. The reason it cannot be organized is because what makes this group reasonable is that they have not lost their personable and human compassion for individual Jews. The minute it becomes a movement it runs the risk of taking on its own purpose. I suggest that anyone frustrated by this painful aspect of the Golus should turn their focus completely on their own Avodas Hashem and view these situations of adversity as opportunities to rise above, be compassionate for, and to teach others what a true Yid is all about. Stewing in the frustration, anger, and loneliness only serves to feed on itself and increase the bitter feelings. I believe that this situation is one aspect of Chevlei Mashiach, may he come speedily in our days.</p>
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		<title>By: Sammy Finkelman</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy Finkelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-839</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry that there&#039;s not too much that&#039;s exactly right - juust tell people that there&#039;s not too much that&#039;s exactly right - so they&#039;ll keep on looking.  And what did Avraham Avinu do anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry that there&#8217;s not too much that&#8217;s exactly right &#8211; juust tell people that there&#8217;s not too much that&#8217;s exactly right &#8211; so they&#8217;ll keep on looking.  And what did Avraham Avinu do anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: Sammy Finkelman</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy Finkelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-838</guid>
		<description>You have to find some small group - a shul perhaps - that is exactly what you want. It&#039;s going to be small. You can be sure that it is there - in many places. Look around. You can find people or institutions to endorse. People who now do not think of themselves as unique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to find some small group &#8211; a shul perhaps &#8211; that is exactly what you want. It&#8217;s going to be small. You can be sure that it is there &#8211; in many places. Look around. You can find people or institutions to endorse. People who now do not think of themselves as unique.</p>
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		<title>By: DZ</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-835</link>
		<dc:creator>DZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2005 04:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-835</guid>
		<description>Tell him to go to a community like your very own Beth Jacob in Atlanta, where there is a beautiful fusion of FFB and BT.  The BT&#039;s tend to help the FFB&#039;s who relate to them take the edge off their &quot;Chareidi&quot;keit.  It is the best of both worlds, and, according to the Maharal, is actually G-d&#039;s plan to help energize and ignite new passion into the Chareidi world by having them fuse with the BT&#039;s.  THe FFB&#039;s teach the BT&#039;s a solid Torah Hashkafah, and the BT&#039;s &quot;force&quot; the FFB&#039;s to act less harsh, be less black and white, and maintain a healthy balance and appreciation for whatever is of value in the secular world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell him to go to a community like your very own Beth Jacob in Atlanta, where there is a beautiful fusion of FFB and BT.  The BT&#8217;s tend to help the FFB&#8217;s who relate to them take the edge off their &#8220;Chareidi&#8221;keit.  It is the best of both worlds, and, according to the Maharal, is actually G-d&#8217;s plan to help energize and ignite new passion into the Chareidi world by having them fuse with the BT&#8217;s.  THe FFB&#8217;s teach the BT&#8217;s a solid Torah Hashkafah, and the BT&#8217;s &#8220;force&#8221; the FFB&#8217;s to act less harsh, be less black and white, and maintain a healthy balance and appreciation for whatever is of value in the secular world.</p>
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		<title>By: DZ</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-834</link>
		<dc:creator>DZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2005 04:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-834</guid>
		<description>Tell him to go to a community like your very own Beth Jacob in Atlanta, where there is a beautiful fusion of FFB and BT.  The BT&#039;s tend to help the FFB&#039;s who relate to them take the edge off their &quot;Chareidi&quot;keit.  It is the best of both worlds, and, according to the Maharal, is actually G-d&#039;s plan to help energize and ignite new passion into the Chareidi world by having them fuse with the BT&#039;s.  THe FFB&#039;s teach the BT&#039;s a solid Torah Hashkafah, and the BT&#039;s &quot;force&quot; the FFB&#039;s to act less harsh, be less black and white, and maintain a healthy balance and appreciation for whatever is of value in the secular world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell him to go to a community like your very own Beth Jacob in Atlanta, where there is a beautiful fusion of FFB and BT.  The BT&#8217;s tend to help the FFB&#8217;s who relate to them take the edge off their &#8220;Chareidi&#8221;keit.  It is the best of both worlds, and, according to the Maharal, is actually G-d&#8217;s plan to help energize and ignite new passion into the Chareidi world by having them fuse with the BT&#8217;s.  THe FFB&#8217;s teach the BT&#8217;s a solid Torah Hashkafah, and the BT&#8217;s &#8220;force&#8221; the FFB&#8217;s to act less harsh, be less black and white, and maintain a healthy balance and appreciation for whatever is of value in the secular world.</p>
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		<title>By: Batya Medad</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>Batya Medad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-798</guid>
		<description>I think that the searching Jew hasn&#039;t seen enough of the Modern Orthodox.  Many wear large, proud, colorful kippot, that don&#039;t hide in their black hair.  Many study Torah besides working in all sorts of fields.  The person just needs to find the right community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the searching Jew hasn&#8217;t seen enough of the Modern Orthodox.  Many wear large, proud, colorful kippot, that don&#8217;t hide in their black hair.  Many study Torah besides working in all sorts of fields.  The person just needs to find the right community.</p>
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		<title>By: Barney Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Barney Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2005 00:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-774</guid>
		<description>It strikes me that too much is made of MO versus Hareidi. Both can be correct. Elu v&#039;elu divrei Elokim chaim.

The prospective BT should put hesitation aside. If he makes a wrong choice, and later realizes that he did so, what is to stop him from making the right choice at that time?  Who says you only get one shot at being a good Jew?  Some folks have spent all their lives trying to be good Jews, and frankly admit that they are still trying.  Which, I think, is the point.  Trying is a lifetime commitment - the colour of one&#039;s kippah does not determine one&#039;s worth.

He should, as Rebbe Nachman advises, joyfully accept the challenge and forge bravely forward, overcoming all obstacles put in his path by the yetzer ha ra.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me that too much is made of MO versus Hareidi. Both can be correct. Elu v&#8217;elu divrei Elokim chaim.</p>
<p>The prospective BT should put hesitation aside. If he makes a wrong choice, and later realizes that he did so, what is to stop him from making the right choice at that time?  Who says you only get one shot at being a good Jew?  Some folks have spent all their lives trying to be good Jews, and frankly admit that they are still trying.  Which, I think, is the point.  Trying is a lifetime commitment &#8211; the colour of one&#8217;s kippah does not determine one&#8217;s worth.</p>
<p>He should, as Rebbe Nachman advises, joyfully accept the challenge and forge bravely forward, overcoming all obstacles put in his path by the yetzer ha ra.</p>
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		<title>By: YU Educated</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-772</link>
		<dc:creator>YU Educated</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-772</guid>
		<description>It seems strange that one who edited a magazine of leading MO thought-Tradition-so magnificently could attack MO. I hope  that Rabbi Feldman is not attacking many of the Rabbis who he worked with for many years. I remember the kind words he wrote about the Rav ZT&quot;L-although not a YU musmach. It is possible that some of the attack on MO is meant to be the subset of MO who are Torah lite-who frankly maybe are not Orthodox but for whatever reasons pay membership to Orthodox synagogues, send children to MO schools hoping they will not be exposed too much. However, I think the attack would be unfair if it is interpreted as one on the ideology and the practitioners of MO. I believe Rabbi Feldman knows many of them from his active distinguished membership and leadership in the Rabbinical Council of America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems strange that one who edited a magazine of leading MO thought-Tradition-so magnificently could attack MO. I hope  that Rabbi Feldman is not attacking many of the Rabbis who he worked with for many years. I remember the kind words he wrote about the Rav ZT&#8221;L-although not a YU musmach. It is possible that some of the attack on MO is meant to be the subset of MO who are Torah lite-who frankly maybe are not Orthodox but for whatever reasons pay membership to Orthodox synagogues, send children to MO schools hoping they will not be exposed too much. However, I think the attack would be unfair if it is interpreted as one on the ideology and the practitioners of MO. I believe Rabbi Feldman knows many of them from his active distinguished membership and leadership in the Rabbinical Council of America.</p>
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		<title>By: ezra shapiro</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>ezra shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 10:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-746</guid>
		<description>Already orthodox and comfortable in quite a few places

Im orthodox and am so comfortable living amongst such a wide range of jews and rabbanim. I neither cringe at the sound of Rav Elyashivs shlitas name nor at the sound of Rav Ahron Lichtenstein shlitas, they are both tremendous gdolei olam and yirei shamayim, I should only reach their ankles. I realize that no &quot;system&quot; has proven itself for someone who is not working constantly to notice areas to improve, each system has its challenges which has to be compensated for and worked on through self chinuch, otherwise avodat hashem wouldn&#039;t be an avoda it would be a train ticket. Each system being more or less challenging for different people. When I bring up my children I evaluate which challenges I will be able to overcome with my own chinuch.(with the full awareness of the reality which the &quot;baal tshuva&quot; might not yet realize that there are more than enough exceptions to the stereotypes on both sides that you really wont feel uncomfortable as a learned and observant person living in a MO community or as a menshlich open minded person living in a yishivish community) I&#039;m personally pretty optimistic at the general trends and growing opportunities in both communities for growth. Try to picture the perfect society one which is openminded and protected, involved with the world and unaffected by it. You cant create that with a system, only with hard work; either by trying to become openmided in a protected world or to become more protective in an open world. both of those are the exact options which we have. Enjoy it&#039;s a wonderful growing and challenging jewish world, as long as you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Already orthodox and comfortable in quite a few places</p>
<p>Im orthodox and am so comfortable living amongst such a wide range of jews and rabbanim. I neither cringe at the sound of Rav Elyashivs shlitas name nor at the sound of Rav Ahron Lichtenstein shlitas, they are both tremendous gdolei olam and yirei shamayim, I should only reach their ankles. I realize that no &#8220;system&#8221; has proven itself for someone who is not working constantly to notice areas to improve, each system has its challenges which has to be compensated for and worked on through self chinuch, otherwise avodat hashem wouldn&#8217;t be an avoda it would be a train ticket. Each system being more or less challenging for different people. When I bring up my children I evaluate which challenges I will be able to overcome with my own chinuch.(with the full awareness of the reality which the &#8220;baal tshuva&#8221; might not yet realize that there are more than enough exceptions to the stereotypes on both sides that you really wont feel uncomfortable as a learned and observant person living in a MO community or as a menshlich open minded person living in a yishivish community) I&#8217;m personally pretty optimistic at the general trends and growing opportunities in both communities for growth. Try to picture the perfect society one which is openminded and protected, involved with the world and unaffected by it. You cant create that with a system, only with hard work; either by trying to become openmided in a protected world or to become more protective in an open world. both of those are the exact options which we have. Enjoy it&#8217;s a wonderful growing and challenging jewish world, as long as you think.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-721</guid>
		<description>Dear R&#039; Feldman - it&#039;s my favorite quote but I think you quoted it by heart and assumed the poet shared your frumkeit - it&#039;s not &quot;Would the Lord &quot; but rather &quot;Would some power the giftie..&quot;
KT
Joel Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear R&#8217; Feldman &#8211; it&#8217;s my favorite quote but I think you quoted it by heart and assumed the poet shared your frumkeit &#8211; it&#8217;s not &#8220;Would the Lord &#8221; but rather &#8220;Would some power the giftie..&#8221;<br />
KT<br />
Joel Rich</p>
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		<title>By: Mikhael Eliyahou in Jerusalem</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikhael Eliyahou in Jerusalem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-714</guid>
		<description>Rav Feldman: I am quite happy to see you in this forum!  Especially on this subject that we have discussed in times past.  I wonder if the question might be more valid -- and the answer more easily approached -- if we were to consider other elements of Orthodox Judaism, which are as historically or philosophically valid as the &#7717;aredi or MO streams.  For example:
(1) Edot HaMizra&#7717; and Sepharadim, who have been subsumed by the yeshivish world but would do well to flesh out their own heritage instead.  They would be a force to be reckoned with in this debate if they would just remember what they are bringing to the Jewish world.
(2) The &quot;&#7716;aredi Leumi&quot; or MO &quot;&#7717;azzakim&quot;, whom have already been mentioned in this discussion, and who are quite serious about living according to Torah ideals (albeit perhaps still too reactionary to the &#7717;aredi world).
(3) Fringe &#7717;assidic groups who, although I don&#039;t like it personally, are apparently going to have a say in the future of Judaism.
(4) And those of us who have chosen to cast our lot with the Land and State of Israel by living here, which forces us to reflect on our choice of camp nearly every day.  As you well know, our children&#039;s educational choices (as well as a myriad of other life-style choices) are more sharply defined here than in &lt;em&gt;Huts-le-Arets&lt;/em&gt;, and that makes this whole question more real.  When I look back to the U.S. and to those who can make a patchwork quilt out of said life-style choices, I say, &quot;Enjoy it while you can&quot;.
Your thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rav Feldman: I am quite happy to see you in this forum!  Especially on this subject that we have discussed in times past.  I wonder if the question might be more valid &#8212; and the answer more easily approached &#8212; if we were to consider other elements of Orthodox Judaism, which are as historically or philosophically valid as the &#7717;aredi or MO streams.  For example:<br />
(1) Edot HaMizra&#7717; and Sepharadim, who have been subsumed by the yeshivish world but would do well to flesh out their own heritage instead.  They would be a force to be reckoned with in this debate if they would just remember what they are bringing to the Jewish world.<br />
(2) The &#8220;&#7716;aredi Leumi&#8221; or MO &#8220;&#7717;azzakim&#8221;, whom have already been mentioned in this discussion, and who are quite serious about living according to Torah ideals (albeit perhaps still too reactionary to the &#7717;aredi world).<br />
(3) Fringe &#7717;assidic groups who, although I don&#8217;t like it personally, are apparently going to have a say in the future of Judaism.<br />
(4) And those of us who have chosen to cast our lot with the Land and State of Israel by living here, which forces us to reflect on our choice of camp nearly every day.  As you well know, our children&#8217;s educational choices (as well as a myriad of other life-style choices) are more sharply defined here than in <em>Huts-le-Arets</em>, and that makes this whole question more real.  When I look back to the U.S. and to those who can make a patchwork quilt out of said life-style choices, I say, &#8220;Enjoy it while you can&#8221;.<br />
Your thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-712</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-712</guid>
		<description>Rabbi Feldman,

I am so happy to see you on the internet posting.  I have looked up to you for a great long while.  As a sometimes visitor to Beth Jacob and Rabbi Silverman&#039;s beginners minyan (I live 5 hours from Atlanta), and a reader of your books, I myself am waiting to become orthodox (just as soon as my gentile hubby decides to convert with me).

I would be delighted to hear what you finally tell your BT friend.  Me, I would tell him to go MO, but not a tiny-kippot-wearing MO.  There are great examples of MO people with huge black velvet kippot, who say a bracha when partaking of a cookie crumb, but who can relate to the rest of the world with joy.

My hubby has been scared off by the charedi when visiting their neighborhoods in Fairfax.  They were unfriendly, cold, and self-absorbed, he says.  Is this the fishbowl HaSh-m wanted us to be?  Who would join such a group?  How can the Jews lead the way if they close themselves off entirely from the world?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Feldman,</p>
<p>I am so happy to see you on the internet posting.  I have looked up to you for a great long while.  As a sometimes visitor to Beth Jacob and Rabbi Silverman&#8217;s beginners minyan (I live 5 hours from Atlanta), and a reader of your books, I myself am waiting to become orthodox (just as soon as my gentile hubby decides to convert with me).</p>
<p>I would be delighted to hear what you finally tell your BT friend.  Me, I would tell him to go MO, but not a tiny-kippot-wearing MO.  There are great examples of MO people with huge black velvet kippot, who say a bracha when partaking of a cookie crumb, but who can relate to the rest of the world with joy.</p>
<p>My hubby has been scared off by the charedi when visiting their neighborhoods in Fairfax.  They were unfriendly, cold, and self-absorbed, he says.  Is this the fishbowl HaSh-m wanted us to be?  Who would join such a group?  How can the Jews lead the way if they close themselves off entirely from the world?</p>
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		<title>By: Ilana</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-700</guid>
		<description>1) Being a fresh BT gives you at least a few years of time to pick and choose from here and there and not fit entirely into any particular community. More or less until your oldest child enters school. And even when you&#039;ve chosen a primary affiliation, you don&#039;t need to conform 100% (especially if you&#039;re careful about the externals). Lots of people don&#039;t.
2) As has been pointed out, some of this depends where you live. There are &quot;chardal&quot; (chareidi leumi - very serious about mitzvot and about the State of Israel) communities in Israel, &quot;modern chareidi&quot; enclaves in chu&quot;l, etc. Small communities have advantages and disadvantages - one advantage is that in a town with only one Orthodox shul, everyone belongs and people with fairly divergent hashkafot can get along surprisingly well.
3) Being Orthodox does not guarantee that you or anyone else will be a tzaddik or even a mensch. Plenty of us are shallow, materialistic, selfish, arrogant, close-minded, etc. So are plenty of non-Orthodox people. The Torah gives us the tools to transform these middos, but it&#039;s a lifetime&#039;s labour. Realize that there are remarkable people within every segment of Orthodoxy, and don&#039;t let a few individuals tarnish the reputation of an entire outlook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Being a fresh BT gives you at least a few years of time to pick and choose from here and there and not fit entirely into any particular community. More or less until your oldest child enters school. And even when you&#8217;ve chosen a primary affiliation, you don&#8217;t need to conform 100% (especially if you&#8217;re careful about the externals). Lots of people don&#8217;t.<br />
2) As has been pointed out, some of this depends where you live. There are &#8220;chardal&#8221; (chareidi leumi &#8211; very serious about mitzvot and about the State of Israel) communities in Israel, &#8220;modern chareidi&#8221; enclaves in chu&#8221;l, etc. Small communities have advantages and disadvantages &#8211; one advantage is that in a town with only one Orthodox shul, everyone belongs and people with fairly divergent hashkafot can get along surprisingly well.<br />
3) Being Orthodox does not guarantee that you or anyone else will be a tzaddik or even a mensch. Plenty of us are shallow, materialistic, selfish, arrogant, close-minded, etc. So are plenty of non-Orthodox people. The Torah gives us the tools to transform these middos, but it&#8217;s a lifetime&#8217;s labour. Realize that there are remarkable people within every segment of Orthodoxy, and don&#8217;t let a few individuals tarnish the reputation of an entire outlook.</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-699</guid>
		<description>When people as me what I am, I say a &quot;Jew&quot;. And who&#039;s your father? I am a ben Avraham, Yitzchak v&#039;Yaakov. Seems to work ok...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When people as me what I am, I say a &#8220;Jew&#8221;. And who&#8217;s your father? I am a ben Avraham, Yitzchak v&#8217;Yaakov. Seems to work ok&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Shira Leibowitz Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-696</link>
		<dc:creator>Shira Leibowitz Schmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-696</guid>
		<description>When I studied engineering one method that we learned  for  making decisions under uncertainty  was the minimax theory.  Applied here it would mean that opting for the haredi world might lead, at worst, to narrowness. But opting  for the MO world might lead in a worse case scenario, Heaven forbid, to leading a person (or his descendants) out of Judaism.
20 bShvat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I studied engineering one method that we learned  for  making decisions under uncertainty  was the minimax theory.  Applied here it would mean that opting for the haredi world might lead, at worst, to narrowness. But opting  for the MO world might lead in a worse case scenario, Heaven forbid, to leading a person (or his descendants) out of Judaism.<br />
20 bShvat</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Feldman</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-694</guid>
		<description>Your comments show that you have met the less serious MOs and not the more serious ones.  While the majority of MOs in the US are less serious, there are increasing numbers of the more serious ones, especially among graduates of Yeshiva University who spent time studying at yeshivot in Israel.  And in Israel, the situation is even better--there are many communities where large numbers of the populace are &quot;Torani,&quot; i.e., serious MOs.  I live in one such community.  Many of us make sure to study Torah every day, teach our children that Torah education is more important than secular education, and are critical of the materialistic culture of the Western world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comments show that you have met the less serious MOs and not the more serious ones.  While the majority of MOs in the US are less serious, there are increasing numbers of the more serious ones, especially among graduates of Yeshiva University who spent time studying at yeshivot in Israel.  And in Israel, the situation is even better&#8211;there are many communities where large numbers of the populace are &#8220;Torani,&#8221; i.e., serious MOs.  I live in one such community.  Many of us make sure to study Torah every day, teach our children that Torah education is more important than secular education, and are critical of the materialistic culture of the Western world.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-693</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-693</guid>
		<description>I belong to a Conservative shul, but often daven with a mixture of MOs and Charedim who themselves are a mixture of BTS and FFBs. I find the comment that Conservatives are wishy-washy to be just silly. Wishy-washy about what. 

Now I am not advocating that this man become Conservative, but I will say that I have been told frequently that I know a surprising amount for a &lt;i&gt;Conservative Jew&lt;/i&gt; which is really nothing more than a back handed compliment.

To me this is all part of the problem of tolerance within our community as a whole, not just Reform, Conservative or Orthodoxy, but Jews in general.

We must find a way to stand together or we will find ourselves standing alone.

That being said I would advise the man to try and make a list of pros and cons and then analyze that to see if it provides more insight into where and what he wants to be. Good Shabbos to all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I belong to a Conservative shul, but often daven with a mixture of MOs and Charedim who themselves are a mixture of BTS and FFBs. I find the comment that Conservatives are wishy-washy to be just silly. Wishy-washy about what. </p>
<p>Now I am not advocating that this man become Conservative, but I will say that I have been told frequently that I know a surprising amount for a <i>Conservative Jew</i> which is really nothing more than a back handed compliment.</p>
<p>To me this is all part of the problem of tolerance within our community as a whole, not just Reform, Conservative or Orthodoxy, but Jews in general.</p>
<p>We must find a way to stand together or we will find ourselves standing alone.</p>
<p>That being said I would advise the man to try and make a list of pros and cons and then analyze that to see if it provides more insight into where and what he wants to be. Good Shabbos to all.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Coleman</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-691</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How’s this for “Modern Orthodox” chumra: Participating in the defense of the State of Israel. &#8220;Or filing honest income taxes. Or treating blacks, gays, and women with a modicum of respect. Or displaying tolerance for multiple viewpoints.&#8221;</p>
<p>Those are not chumros.  Honest income taxes are a chiyuv.  The other things are merely your desiderata.</p>
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		<title>By: Bnei Levi</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-689</link>
		<dc:creator>Bnei Levi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 18:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-689</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;R&#039; Emanuel Feldman on Slifkin&lt;/strong&gt;
Cross Currents published an article from R&#039; Emanuel Feldman about the Slifkin controversy. Keep in mind that R&#039; Aharon Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Israel / Baltimore, is the brother of R&#039; Emanuel Feldman (andhis pro-ban opinion has mentioned here b...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>R&#8217; Emanuel Feldman on Slifkin</strong><br />
Cross Currents published an article from R&#8217; Emanuel Feldman about the Slifkin controversy. Keep in mind that R&#8217; Aharon Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Israel / Baltimore, is the brother of R&#8217; Emanuel Feldman (andhis pro-ban opinion has mentioned here b&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The life of a rabbi in Yehupitz</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-685</link>
		<dc:creator>The life of a rabbi in Yehupitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-685</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Cross-currents and Orthodox debates&lt;/strong&gt;
I really don&#039;t have time right now to type, but I have read yet another series of blog comments that just don&#039;t get it. Gil gets it, but many members of his comment community don&#039;t. For weeks, people have been...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Cross-currents and Orthodox debates</strong><br />
I really don&#8217;t have time right now to type, but I have read yet another series of blog comments that just don&#8217;t get it. Gil gets it, but many members of his comment community don&#8217;t. For weeks, people have been&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michoel</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-682</link>
		<dc:creator>Michoel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-682</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Toby Katz, please come over here and upshlug this terrible defamation that charedim don&#039;t have a modicum of respect for their wives.  I am shocked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Toby Katz, please come over here and upshlug this terrible defamation that charedim don&#8217;t have a modicum of respect for their wives.  I am shocked.</p>
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		<title>By: ADDeRabbi</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-680</link>
		<dc:creator>ADDeRabbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-680</guid>
		<description>How&#039;s this for &quot;Modern Orthodox&quot; chumra: Participating in the defense of the State of Israel. Or filing honest income taxes. Or treating blacks, gays, and women with a modicum of respect. Or displaying tolerance for multiple viewpoints.

When did &quot;chumra&quot; start pertaining exclusively to how much matza one eats. A wise man once remarked, &quot;It&#039;s not that Charedi have all of the chumrot and MO all of the kulot. Rather, Charedim have a tendency toward chumra in Orach Chaim and Yoreh Deah and toward kulah in Choshen Mishpat, whereas the reverse is the case in the MO world.&quot; 

And a more fundamental issue: What the heck is this, color war? Since when must my religious world be determined by synagogue or political affiliation. Didn&#039;t all 3 million Jews at Sinai hear something else? Do we all need to label ourselves as being on one &#039;team&#039; or the other? Does your BT friend need to make a &#039;choice&#039;, or can he just observe that he doesn&#039;t fit either of the 2 major trends within Orthodoxy, become confortable on his lonely path toward God, and quit try to shoehorn himself into one camp or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How&#8217;s this for &#8220;Modern Orthodox&#8221; chumra: Participating in the defense of the State of Israel. Or filing honest income taxes. Or treating blacks, gays, and women with a modicum of respect. Or displaying tolerance for multiple viewpoints.</p>
<p>When did &#8220;chumra&#8221; start pertaining exclusively to how much matza one eats. A wise man once remarked, &#8220;It&#8217;s not that Charedi have all of the chumrot and MO all of the kulot. Rather, Charedim have a tendency toward chumra in Orach Chaim and Yoreh Deah and toward kulah in Choshen Mishpat, whereas the reverse is the case in the MO world.&#8221; </p>
<p>And a more fundamental issue: What the heck is this, color war? Since when must my religious world be determined by synagogue or political affiliation. Didn&#8217;t all 3 million Jews at Sinai hear something else? Do we all need to label ourselves as being on one &#8216;team&#8217; or the other? Does your BT friend need to make a &#8216;choice&#8217;, or can he just observe that he doesn&#8217;t fit either of the 2 major trends within Orthodoxy, become confortable on his lonely path toward God, and quit try to shoehorn himself into one camp or the other.</p>
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		<title>By: dovbear</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-679</link>
		<dc:creator>dovbear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-679</guid>
		<description>It occurs to me that your charecterization of the MO is 100 percent unfair. You know better, so why did you attack them without mercy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It occurs to me that your charecterization of the MO is 100 percent unfair. You know better, so why did you attack them without mercy?</p>
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		<title>By: Shmuel</title>
		<link>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/comment-page-1/#comment-675</link>
		<dc:creator>Shmuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/01/26/ready-to-be-orthdox-but-no-place-to-go/#comment-675</guid>
		<description>Akiva,
As someone of a similar mind and currently involved in shidduchim for my daughter. I hear you LOUD and CLEAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Akiva,<br />
As someone of a similar mind and currently involved in shidduchim for my daughter. I hear you LOUD and CLEAR.</p>
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